Schmidt-Rubin 1889 Sporter for $100! Now what?

TimberWolf_3063

TimberWolf_3063

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Hello all,

just found a treasure at my local gun shop! Something I've heard a lot about, but never seen in the flesh.

A sporterized Schmidt-Rubin 1889 Model. Yes, sporterized, and I like it. Nicely done, someone really took care of this thing...beautiful stock and micrometer sights. Barrel looks good and the action is tighter than my Remington 700 Mil-Spec! (Pictures to follow)

For $100, I couldn't leave it. I just checked the serial numbers (3 different ones...rifle, bolt and magazine).

Rifle from 1894, bolt from 1897, magazine from 1896.

The bolt has locking lugs at the rear. Yes, I know it can't shoot GP11 ammo and that K31s are better shooters. But you'll see once I post the pictures...it is SO pretty.

So, for all you Swiss experts...what are your recommendations for ammo for this beast? I can't find commercial GP90 anywhere, but there are some DIY solutions out there. So far, I've seen:

- Buying GP11 7.5x55, dumping the powder, trimming the case to 53.5, and reloading light;
- Trimming down .284 Win brass and using that; or
- Buying GP11 and reloading lighter WITHOUT trimming.

I won't shoot this thing much; if it never sees a round, it'll still be the prettiest wallhanger I ever saw. But I'd like to be able to shoot it occasionally. What are my options?
 
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Not seeing pictures.

I take it you reload already.
In two 1889s, I found I did not need to trim the 7.5 x55 case at all.
I used 35grs of H4895 instead of the 45grs H4895 for the 7.5x55 load with 178gr Amax .308 bullet.
That is 77.77% of the GP11 level load.

Do not use K31(so called) specific dies for the any of the Pre K31 7.5 rifles.

I've reloaded GP11 cases with RWS Berdan primers and have also used Prvi brass and .284Win brass with normal Boxer primers. Not a big deal.
 
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I'm thinking you know your stuff so ignore this if you're sure.

Many of the 1911s were converted to 30-30 Winchester when they were sporterised. Mind you, they also had their barrels cut back to 22 inches and your's looks to be full length
 
I have 2 of this old model, both Bubba jobs, not sportered very nicely (as youra). They both are willing to eat standard Norma 7.5x55 casings, so it is possible that yours will, also.

I load for them with a 165-grain .308 slug and keep the powder charges sane...... and they turn in quite nice groups. If you load to .303 levels, that extra-large Swiss casing will smooth the pressures down into the basement and you should have no troubles. Major Rubin (who also developed the .303 cartridge, mind you) would be pleased. These rifles also respond very well to the Harris load, which is of benefit to those of us of Scots ancestry: 538 rounds from a single tin of powder is VERRA economical..... and it is an excellent load which will help your old 3-groove barrel to survive for another century of regular shooting.

Proper original bullet was the paper-wrapped, steel-capped type which was superseded by the 190-grain RN jacketed type in 1924. Friend Buffdog ran into a small raft of these by accident and I was the fortunate recipient of two bags, so some of these will be tried in the coming year. They have what appears to be a greased-mild-steel jacket of .307" diameter.

I do have a very nice scope mount here, one of the Swiss Arms ones which friend DIOPTER handles, and it looks to be extremely solid. It will be getting a workout (with photos) the coming season. (With my own health problems, I need a WARM day for precision shooting, and we had few enough of those this past 'summer': global warming, y'know).

Your rifle might be a bastardised sporter, friend, but I think anyone will have to admit that it is a MOST handsome specimen of the breed. It's WORTH a place of honour on the rack.

Thanks for showing.
 

You can buy 7.5x55 Brass from Trade-ex at reasonable prices. It is really not worth it to buy .284 or break down GP-11 rounds.

LEE makes a fairly good set of dies for this Calibre. RCBS makes two different sets --one for the K-31 and the other for the 1899 and 1911 rifles.

As mentioned, check the chamber as GLOBECO did convert a lot of these rifles to 30-30 Calibre. Standard .308 diameter bullets work well but this rifle was originally designed for a heavy round nosed bullet.
 
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$100? You stole that one;)

Fascinating rifles, though I can't find a cast load that my K11 likes in the slightest.
 
hmm. I was looking at one that was sportered... Real nasty rusty shape, but I could get it real cheap... Now I want to look a little closer at it to see if its 30/30....
 
Cast load for your K-11?

Try the Harris Universal load: 13 grains of Red Dot (might go 14 with the fat casing) and a 180-grain CAST bullet. Likely a gas-check will help.

$2.20 a box, 11 cents a round: gratifies the cockles o' mah guid Scots hairt!
 
smellie said:
Cast load for your K-11?

Try the Harris Universal load: 13 grains of Red Dot (might go 14 with the fat casing) and a 180-grain CAST bullet. Likely a gas-check will help.

$2.20 a box, 11 cents a round: gratifies the cockles o' mah guid Scots hairt!
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Thanks, but unfortunately I've already tried it, Smellie - both 13 and 14 grains with an RCBS 165-sil bullet in both .309 and .311 (gas checked), crimped with the front band exposed to get it close to the rifling, and at 65m the rifle doesn't group - it patterns like a shotgun. Same story with all fast and medium burning rifle powders I've tried with that bullet - 2400, RL7, H335, AA5744, and i think i tried 4895 as well. Bought a few rounds of GP11 to try and I could hold to about 2 inches at that distance without trying too hard, so the rifle ought to be ok.

I'm thinking of trying more of a groove riding bullet like the 311291 and see if joy can be had there - that's my only other 30 cal bullet.

Needless to say, I hope the OP either has better luck, or a rifle that indeed is in 30-30!
 
Mark-II said:
Thanks, but unfortunately I've already tried it, Smellie - both 13 and 14 grains with an RCBS 165-sil bullet in both .309 and .311 (gas checked), crimped with the front band exposed to get it close to the rifling, and at 65m the rifle doesn't group - it patterns like a shotgun. Same story with all fast and medium burning rifle powders I've tried with that bullet - 2400, RL7, H335, AA5744, and i think i tried 4895 as well. Bought a few rounds of GP11 to try and I could hold to about 2 inches at that distance without trying too hard, so the rifle ought to be ok.

I'm thinking of trying more of a groove riding bullet like the 311291 and see if joy can be had there - that's my only other 30 cal bullet.

Needless to say, I hope the OP either has better luck, or a rifle that indeed is in 30-30!
Click to expand...

I'm thinking you need to slug your bore. .309 may be too small, and .311 may be too big!!

I find that in my experience cast rounds only group well once you figure out the exact bullet diameter that the rifle likes. I have 4 .303 chambered rifles here that I feed cast and 2 like .311, 1 likes .313 and the last finally shot well today with .315's. I finally figured the last one out after months of testing.

I also shoot cast out of my m91 Finn mosin, that one likes .311's even though after slugging the bore I was leaning towards firing .312's out of it.

Keep experimenting and you'll get it!!:)
 
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I've been avoiding slugging bores, and so far keeping to the recommended bullet sizes has served me well, but I suspect that you may be right in that I've finally found a rifle that hates everything that I feed it, so something needs doing. I did try the Harris load with both .309 and .311 slugs, and if anything the .311 shot worse, if there is anything worse than horrible, so I abandoned them for further testing with other powders.

I'll get some soft pills made up and have a go with slugging it before I waste further time and ammo. I'd rather shoot than develop loads during the winter!
 
Mark-II said:
I've been avoiding slugging bores, and so far keeping to the recommended bullet sizes has served me well, but I suspect that you may be right in that I've finally found a rifle that hates everything that I feed it, so something needs doing. I did try the Harris load with both .309 and .311 slugs, and if anything the .311 shot worse, if there is anything worse than horrible, so I abandoned them for further testing with other powders.

I'll get some soft pills made up and have a go with slugging it before I waste further time and ammo. I'd rather shoot than develop loads during the winter!
Click to expand...

Load development is sometimes a pain that's for sure!! We've been loading for my brother's model '89 schmit all summer. It took us quite awhile to get any useful data to go off of.

We to are going to try some cast this winter, possible run some of my .312 bullets through a .308 sizing die and try 13 grains of good ol red dot. Hopefully she'll fire them without too much trouble.
 
Mark-II said:
Thanks, but unfortunately I've already tried it, Smellie - both 13 and 14 grains with an RCBS 165-sil bullet in both .309 and .311 (gas checked), crimped with the front band exposed to get it close to the rifling, and at 65m the rifle doesn't group - it patterns like a shotgun. Same story with all fast and medium burning rifle powders I've tried with that bullet - 2400, RL7, H335, AA5744, and i think i tried 4895 as well. Bought a few rounds of GP11 to try and I could hold to about 2 inches at that distance without trying too hard, so the rifle ought to be ok.

I'm thinking of trying more of a groove riding bullet like the 311291 and see if joy can be had there - that's my only other 30 cal bullet.

Needless to say, I hope the OP either has better luck, or a rifle that indeed is in 30-30!
Click to expand...

I have found that the round nosed cast bullets, with their longer bore bearing surface, tend to shoot a bit more accurate that a spitzer design with it's pointed nose, especially when you try to drive them a bit faster. However, I have an old Hensley and Gibbs mould here, (a copy of the 172 grain 30-06 military bullet), that throws 169 grain lead bullets. When you try to drive it over 1600 fps it goes all over the place, but at about 1400-1500 fps, good for up to 100 yards and a bit more, it is wonderfully accurate. At higher speeds, it becomes unstable.
 
The rifls originally were designed for a long and HEAVY bullet.

There is a good chance that a 165 is too light.

Try a 180 (what the Harris load is designed for) or heavier.
 
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