Scope FFP (First Focal Plane) Necessary?

Tcon said:
The only reason I said theoretically is because not everybody is the same.

I am not against FFP scopes and understand the feature. I just personally don't like how the size of the reticle changes. It may just be something I would have to get used to.
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FFP is not for everyone if it where there would be no SFP
 
Tcon said:
You keep chasing your tail. I don't need to physically pull a trigger to understand the function of the scope. Tell me where I am wrong:

1) An SFP scope can range
2) An FFP scope can range
3) An SFP scope can hold over
4) An FFP scope can hold over
5) You can mil (compensate for elevation or windange) using any milling reticle (mil dot, horus, NPR-1, NPR-2, etc)
6) You can mil using SFP scopes
7) You can mil using FFP scopes
8) An SFP scope has a the ability to range and mil at any magnification, but is accurate at a specific power and requires an adjustment calcuation at all other powers.
9) An FFP scope has the ability to range and mil at any magnification and is accurate throughout the magnification range requiring no calculation.
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caustic said:
#9 - for the win
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Bingo!

Yes, you can do all of those things with SPF too. Only not as quickly and with a far greater chance of error when performing them under stress. This means less chance of hitting a random snap target. If you have no need to do it under stress, then no, it isn't going to be a great advantage to you.

The sad fact is that we have very few ranges in Canada that are well suited to offering the kind of shooting competition where this advantage becomes very apparent. Most of our long distance ranges have fixed butts, where you only shoot at one distance at a time, and that is all that most on here have ever been exposed to. The kinds of shooting competitions where you really see the advantage requires a fixed shooting point that allows you to engage targets at multiple distances simultaneously. Many of these contain stages that have snap targets and movers at random distances. You don't have time to make adjustments or think about math. You'll miss the close range exposures if you have to search for them because your magnification is set too high.

If you don't have snap targets, you can do "sniper duels" with gongs at multiple distances. Put two shooters side-by-side and call out targets at different distances randomly. Whoever hits it first gets the point.
 
caustic said:
FFP is not for everyone if it where there would be no SFP
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FFp, will overtake Sfp in popularity now that the technology has been perfected. It makes accurate shooting much easier for those who's lives depend on a good shot. There is a reason more companies are staring to offer it. How many old timers have ever used a ffp scope? Heck how many have used anyhpthing other than a simple duplex? Like anything new it takes time to catch on. Ffp is much superior to sfp for most applications.
 
In the tactical arena yes, SFP and MOA are dying. But I think SPF will have a strong following in hunting and target shooting circles for a long time to come. There are some applications that it is better suited for, and if nothing else, there are a lot of people out there who are resistant to change (even if it makes things easier). Plus, most of the cheaper optics are SPF, and companies aren't keen on making changes to products that are being produced in high volume.
 
I have a bushnell elite 6500 2.5-16x50 SFP MiL recticle/ MOA turrets. Its great. I can Dial with it just fine but the wind holds of course depend on power level. Its true Mil dots at 10 power but often out past 600 its nice to see the hits so dialed up. I just found I had a lot of extra math required when ranging and wind holds. Also the MOA dials to MIL dots are another conversion but I got pretty good at that. I do love their rainguard coating. It doesn't matter how crappy foggy or snowy and wet the glass gets. If its snow blow it out otherwise its no problem seeing and shooting through the scope This is my primary hunting scope.

I Got last summer a vortex viper PST 6-24x50 FFP MIL/MIL scope. I like it. All the extra math goes away. Nice having matched turrets to the reticle. No Problem with the reticle. Its like .04 mil so even at 1000 yards its only covering 1.44 inches. Really not a problem. Glass is comparable to my 6500.

The turrets track really nice to the scope, no adjustment required. Also return to zero not at problem I've swapped it between guns and even onto a 22LR for some 300 yard shooting with 10 MIL dialed in and again not a problem returning to zero. It also has zero stop settings for elevation. I have them set so on my 223 rem on my savage I can dial 0 and its my 100 yard zero for the 75gr amaxes. For the 69gr I have it that I can dial 1mil below zero and .5 mil low zeros them for 100 yards. Then my 22 LR is only 2.4 mil on the dial for a 100 yard zero. All have 20 MOA piitinny rails and I just put a Brother label maker sticker on the scope for the zero info for each gun.

Also the vortex warranty is lifetime to anyone, no receipt needed. Never needed it but nice to know its there

Never used a night force. I was looking at those but the FFP scope were not as high a power as I wanted. Maybe in the future.

Cheers
 
Both FFP and SFP have their places. I have both. The big drawback for FFP scopes for me, is when you are at max magnification, the reticle tends to be really thick and can obscure a lot of stuff. Not a big deal for tactical/coyote shooting, but it gets hard on mine to hit popcans past 300m or so. The reticle seems to block most of the can.

For readjustment in the field, having a metric scope with 1cm/100m clicks and FFP mildots is amazing. 1.6 mils off? 16 clicks. That's it.
 
TargetNorth said:
Both FFP and SFP have their places. I have both. The big drawback for FFP scopes for me, is when you are at max magnification, the reticle tends to be really thick and can obscure a lot of stuff. Not a big deal for tactical/coyote shooting, but it gets hard on mine to hit popcans past 300m or so. The reticle seems to block most of the can.
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That is reticle dependent. It isn't the case for all FFP scopes. I use 1" dots as my aiming point at 300 yards when load testing with my Premier.

From their specification:

gen2_xr.jpg


The thickness of the reticle ('K') is 0.075" @ 100 yards, or 0.225" @ 300 yards.


300 yards, 3"x6" plate:
25x.JPG


1125 yards, IPSC target:
IMG_4168.JPG

You can easily put those crosshairs in the middle of the 6" head and see white in all four quadrants.
 
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