Scope for hunting (mid range, up to 400 yards?)

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PaulHunts

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Hello everybody, :)

I am looking for a scope for my rifle (Tikka T3 in 9,3x62 with heavy barrel, piccatinny rail, timney trigger, weaver ring mounts in 30 mm). It would be great if somebody can help me. Beside the rifle, I have a Leupold Rx-800i range finder and pretty soon I will have my own reloading equipment.

My favourite place to hunt whitetail deer and coyotes is on my own field where I could shoot from 30 to 500 yards (from my stand). There are two spots where deer like to come out. The best spot is at about 100 yards. The second best spot is between 300-400 yards and I want to be able to shoot up there (especially if I see a coyote).
In fact, I have had a lot of situations over the years where I wanted to shoot past 200 yards but was not comfortable with my scope/reticle (where I cant adjust for height/wind.. ). However, my grouping is pretty good at 200 yards so I would like to find out where my limit is (lets say be able to git a 8 inch diameter target under normal conditions every time.. I am not talking about grouping, I mean to hit a 8 inch circle every time with the first shoot, that is where my limit is).

What scope should I get??
All my hunting rifles have been either Schmidt&Bender or Leupold .So far, I am leaning towards the Leupold Mark 4 4.5-14x50 M1 with mil dot reticle. My thought on that scope:
- Great personal experience with Leupold
- I am very pleased with my 6x42 S&B on 200 yards.. so I I dont think that I would need a lot of magnification power. In fact, I would rather have a scope that gives me 2-10 magnification than a 4-14 (be able to use the scope on close range or even when the deer is moving on close range..).
- I have a Luepold 3.5-10x50 and it has been a great universal scope (like I said, up to where my bullet starts dropping too much and I cant adjust for height&wind..). It is about as big as I want it.. sI wonder if a 40 mm wouldn't be ok too (however, the rpcie for the mark4 in 40 mm is very similar I think)
- Mildot looks simple. So does the M1 turrent.
- I have read that S&B makes a very good scope for long range shooting but that exceeds my budget. I dont have the money to buy twice and think that the Leupold should give me good value while I can still barely afford it (if I can get it for 1500 CAD or so).

Thanks,:confused:
Paul
 
I have a 6x42 Leupold ( you can option it with a LR reticle, heavy dual X, or CDS dial) on my 9.3, loose nothing on the bottom end or the top end, plus it is a rugged scope for hunting and recoil.
 
Kelly Timoffee said:
C296 NXS251032 Low V. Covered Turret 1,250


C479 NXS2.5-10X42 - .250 MOA - MD 1,695

I see no reason not to check them out.
Click to expand...

I realize the 9.3 has an almost surreal following on this website, but I think a "sniper" scope such as most Nightforce are, is a tad overboard.

Regardless, I realize the OP is free to choose as he sees fit. Personally, I'd use something in the 2.5-8, 3-9, 2.5-10 with a simple duplex reticle for a 9.3, it's simply not a long range caliber.
 
Agreed. A 9.3x62 is going to be dropping really fast once you get out past 200 or 300 yards. Something in the .270, 7mm or .300 Magnum family would be my choice if you are expecting 400 yard shots.
 
@Kelly
Thanks, but I do not like the Nightforce reticles

@Bearkilr
:)

@BCBrad
Althought I like my 6x42 on 200 yards, I like to be able to zoom out on a close target (e.g. 35 yards in the woods or on a moving target.. 2 x is nice for that) or zoom in on 400 yards (10 times is nice for that.. even just to have a good look at the horns of the buck!). Besides that, I need a new scope, so might as well take something that is ready to go ?!

I am not sure what long range shooting is (is a 350 yard a long range shot? Hard to hit a 8 inch target at that distance?). The 9,3x62 has a lot of energy/power and loading my own ammunition- I cant see why I shouldn't be able to shoot up to 400 yards with it! But I am more eager than ever to find out :) So the Mark 4 should be a good choice?

Thanks,
Paul
 
PaulHunts said:
@Kelly
Thanks, but I do not like the Nightforce reticles

@Bearkilr
:)

@BCBrad
Althought I like my 6x42 on 200 yards, I like to be able to zoom out on a close target (e.g. 35 yards in the woods or on a moving target.. 2 x is nice for that) or zoom in on 400 yards (10 times is nice for that.. even just to have a good look at the horns of the buck!). Besides that, I need a new scope, so might as well take something that is ready to go ?!

I am not sure what long range shooting is (is a 350 yard a long range shot? Hard to hit a 8 inch target at that distance?). The 9,3x62 has a lot of energy/power and loading my own ammunition- I cant see why I shouldn't be able to shoot up to 400 yards with it! But I am more eager than ever to find out :) So the Mark 4 should be a good choice?

Thanks,
Paul
Click to expand...

The Mark 4 would be a good choice.

The problem with the 9.3x62 is it has a low muzzle velocity and low ballistics coefficient. It's great for big and/or dangerous game at close range, but after about 150-200 yards, a 30-06 with 165gr PSP carries more energy than it (based on a 9.3mm 286gr bullet going approx. 2400fps). Additionally, the 30-06 will carry about 50% more energy to the target at 400 yards, with less than half the wind drift and half the drop of the 9.3. Between 350 and 400 yards, the 9.3 drops over 18". If you're ranging is off by even 10 yards at around 400 yards, this could mean the difference between hitting the center of an 8" target and missing it. It's a heavy hitting cartridge close up, but looses steam quickly.
 
BCBRAD said:
I have a 6x42 Leupold ( you can option it with a LR reticle, heavy dual X, or CDS dial) on my 9.3, loose nothing on the bottom end or the top end, plus it is a rugged scope for hunting and recoil.
Click to expand...
^^^^^
This
With a M1 turret...
Plenty of power for 500m, very good in low light, and one of Leupolds most reliable scopes as far as maintaining it's zero and tracking goes..

Using a 250gr. Nosler AccuBond (.494 BC) / 2400 fps / 150 yd zero requires less than one revolution (13.2 MOA) on your turret as per Hornady's ballistic calculator..
http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/ballistics-calculator

Any shots from 200 yds in you could hold dead on with the 150yd zero..

Or as BCBRAD sez you could get a CDS with a turret to match your load...
Either way you should be able to pound a Moose or Elk out to 500 yds. or more easily, depending on your shooting ability..

To bad they don't make a high BC, lighter bullet for deer..
Or maybe someone does??

You got me thinking PaulHunts about putting one of my 6X42's on my CZ550FS in 9.62X62 or K95 9.62X74R

More good stuff here:
http://forum.nosler.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=25833

Would love to know how your Tikka T3 works out for you once you get it all set up..
 
Thanks for the input Ar180 shooter but you are comparing a 165 gr bullet out of a 30-06 with a 286gr bullet out of 9,3x62 ? Seems like comparing apples and oranges to me but I dont know much about it (yet).

Do you have practical experience with the 9,3x62 or do you see these numbers on a ballistic program (probably a good thing to get a rough calculation?). Like I said, I have a rangefinder that is very accurate.. The deer can move a little bit, yoga re right. Lets say I range it at 340 yards and I shoot it on 380 yards with a 250 gr. Accubond. How much will it drop and how much energy will it bring in?

Thanks
 
Hey RUT!

Thanks for the links, very interesting!!

Yeah, I think the Leupold would be great. I am just not sure if I really want to put it on a 9,3x62 where i will only shoot 400 yards or if lets say a Vortex would not do the trick too?

I think they got some pretty light (copper) bullets in Europe. Just not sure about ballistics,etc.

The Tikka is brand new and I only fired a few shots before I got it. However, the grouping at 100 yards was the best I have ever shot and that was with a crappy scope and factory ammunition.. so I very excited about it ...
 
PaulHunts said:
Thanks for the input Ar180 shooter but you are comparing a 165 gr bullet out of a 30-06 with a 286gr bullet out of 9,3x62 ? Seems like comparing apples and oranges to me but I dont know much about it (yet).

Do you have practical experience with the 9,3x62 or do you see these numbers on a ballistic program (probably a good thing to get a rough calculation?). Like I said, I have a rangefinder that is very accurate.. The deer can move a little bit, yoga re right. Lets say I range it at 340 yards and I shoot it on 380 yards with a 250 gr. Accubond. How much will it drop and how much energy will it bring in?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Not really apples and oranges when you examine performance down range. I merely chose the 30-06 as an example of a non-magnum caliber that will hit the target a lot harder at 400 yards than the 9.3x62. These were based on factory loads. With the high BC Nosler Accubond bullet, the down range performance is much better than the load data I initially used. It's worth noting that a similar load in a 30-06 (high BC 168 or 175gr bullet) will match the energy at 400 yards (approx 2000 ft/lbs for both), but with a good deal less drop and wind drift and recoil (about 25% for all 3).

Since you seem convinced you want to use a 9.3x62 for longer ranged hunting, take this advice: to get that performance out of a 9.3x62, you'll need to be using maximum loads, which I find are almost never the most accurate load. Be careful and load up from start data in 0.5gr increments and watch for pressure signs. Get a good chronograph and make sure your loads are consistent and you compensate for drop properly based on your average chronographed MV.
 
You should be able to run a 250gr Accubond 2600+fps, I have, and it is an excellent bullet for moose or elk, also a 286gr Partition should see 2500fps, it has a good BC and is ~24" low at 400yds with a 200yd zero. Terminal performance is much more impressive than the 30's and under.
 
@Ar180,
I have the 9,3x62 Tikka already and I want to give it a try (and see myself..). The question is which scope.. Does anybody know how good Vortex is e.g. the Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x44 Riflescope ? It would be a lot cheaper but is it any good?

@BCBrad
Yeah, that sounds more like it (24 inch drop for 200 yards sound like nothing to me, should be very easy to adjust for that, even if the target moved 8 yards before I shoot). I am getting excited, the 250 gr Accubond is probably the first I would try on the range.

Thanks,
Paul
 
PaulHunts said:
@Kelly
Thanks, but I do not like the Nightforce reticles

@Bearkilr
:)

@BCBrad
Althought I like my 6x42 on 200 yards, I like to be able to zoom out on a close target (e.g. 35 yards in the woods or on a moving target.. 2 x is nice for that) or zoom in on 400 yards (10 times is nice for that.. even just to have a good look at the horns of the buck!). Besides that, I need a new scope, so might as well take something that is ready to go ?!

I am not sure what long range shooting is (is a 350 yard a long range shot? Hard to hit a 8 inch target at that distance?). The 9,3x62 has a lot of energy/power and loading my own ammunition- I cant see why I shouldn't be able to shoot up to 400 yards with it! But I am more eager than ever to find out :) So the Mark 4 should be a good choice?

Thanks,
Paul
Click to expand...

Been down that road (and train of thought) if the rifle fits you 6X at spitting distance is not an issue, moose at 50ft...moose at 425yds and everything in between, most deer come in at under 30yds for me. Early on I found myself always fiddling with the power ring, animals look big animals look small, screws with your referencing, so on variables always set at 6X, eventually I went fixed 6x's, better eyebox, range recognition with animal in view is simplified, and their rugged, plus on freehand shots 6X is about all I can hold rock steady. Experience has shown me that there is more problems at close range with scope set at 10 or more X than the 6 will give you. But if you want a high power variable there are many good ones on the market, I use them on my target rifles and range toyz.

I have a 2.5x10 PST, its been on a 30-06, a braked 300WM , and is now on a 223. Have about 8-900 rounds on it the majority on the 300, I have no issues with the scope other than it was out of place on the 30-06 Finnlight, bulky and somewhat complicated for the hunting I do, replaced with a 6X, quite happy with it for range work and stand hunting .
 
@Brad
When I shot my last buck on 200 yards with 6x42.. thinking about it, it was the perfect magnification.. And at 100 yards, it is a great magnification also. Not long ago I shot a deer free hand at 30 yards with the 6x and it worked great. So I agree, even if I had a variable, I would set it at 6x. It must be nice to be able to turn it up to 10x for shooting at 380 yards though (if you have a good rest, otherwise the 10x might make you nervous anyway :) ) What do you use for your target rifles? How exactly does your 6x42 Leupold look like (model,..?), where did you get it?
 
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PaulHunts said:
@Brad
When I shot my last buck on 200 yards with 6x42.. thinking about it, it was the perfect magnification.. And at 100 yards, it is a great magnification also. Not long ago I shot a deer free hand at 30 yards with the 6x and it worked great. So I agree, even if I had a variable, I would set it at 6x. It must be nice to be able to turn it up to 10x for shooting at 380 yards though (if you have a good rest, otherwise the 10x might make you nervous anyway :) ) What do you use for your target rifles?
Click to expand...

For fun I dial the 6X on my 30-06 all the way up then back 2 clicks , on the point of the bottom post as a reference point on the 10" bull at 1040yds and I print a 3 shot 19"group, MOA targets at 550yds are easy all with a 6X scope. Easier with higher magnification but entirely doable if called upon.

For targets varibles to 10x,16x and 30x.
 
The medium bores have been well served for me with the most excellent old Baush & Lomb 1 1/2 x 6.
Rock throwing out to 400+ yards, this range of magnification has always got the job done atop my .373 H&H.
I see no reason why it wouldn't do the same for 9.3x62 using higher vel. 250 grain handloads.
 
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