Semi auto custom builds and accuracy

[Longstud]

Well lets open up a whole new can of worms! Because Im vocal and older and opinionated I just had too put this out there. I have always been a dyed in the wool bolt shooter for the accuracy advantage BUT. Started thinking about two years ago if the guns were built with precision parts under controlled assembly techniques. Could a semi built by a slightly above average dude, shoot as good or better than most bolt guns. Well down the rabbit hole I went. I mean dove in head first big time.
So started with Ruger receivers and quickly swithched too Dlask, huge improvement. Next was barrels amd Kidd for me surfaced at the top. Next was bolt bodies and this for me showed in order Volquartsen comp bolt followed by the Kidd bolt and then the Dlask which is no longer offered. The Vq bolts firing pins Titanium and is thru the bolt body thus eliminating the cocking handle bridge like all the others . So charge handles are threaded directly into the bolt body which makes aftermarket or homemade handles easy, same thread pattern as a REM 700 action bolt. The DLC coating on the VQ bolt means cleaning is as simple as a wipe with a shop towel. Mine has over 12000 rounds thru it and it still appears as new. Truly impressive product but not cheap. Ive also had NO MALFUNCTIONS with this bolt. I also dont shoot any ammo other than SK and Lapua. As far as triggers Its short and sweet, Kidd and any of them PERIOD.
Well the reason I started this is to get members to realize that a quality build will result in a very accurate rifle. If your looking for a quick ,fun,super accurate rimfire, then look no further than a quality build with quality parts. 1/2" at fifty yards is a given. If you dont believe me Ill give you a list of members whove seen the results themselves. This is a squirrels heads worst nightmare out too 100yards or more with the proper ammo. All rimfires require the proper fuel for the engine thats burnin them. Build one or have one built and youll be suprised!!

 

[DMS1]

Post a pic! Sounds like the same rabbit hole I just went down. What are you using for a trigger? I haven’t tried much but CCI standard velocity seems very accurate. I have some Tennex, Lapua and SK to try but it doesn’t seem to care for sk standard. For HV Force semi auto (black bullets and case) look very good too. Did you go light weight or steel barrel? I just posted up in the pic gallery today. This one is 6.5lbs.

 

[emerson]

Tell us more Longstud. I have really been curious about this. My IBI barreled T1X is continuing to impress me, but my factory 10/22 Competition is equal to it better than the factory Tikka. A reliable semi that shoots as well as a bolt is a better mousetrap unless centerfire training is the goal. How much $$$? A Tikka or CZ with an IBI in an ACC ain’t cheap either.

 

[Mystic Precision]

Accurate 10/22s don't necessarily need alot of money to compete with top level bolt rifles. Excluding optics and the donor rifle, around $700 in parts. McGowen Precision barrels



Team mate won the 2020 CRPS Western Championships in Open



We are all using Factory 10/22 receivers and guts. In fact, most use the base Carbine as the donor rifle. A few mods and TLC... they all seem to run very well with SK and Lapua ammo.

All of the functioning issues started when aftermarket bolts were added. Now ymmv but we have not seen any benefit in the use of aftermarket bolts (we do use aftermarket extractors when needed).

Triggers are another story. Pick the set up that works for you... we tune ours manually but others may choose aftermarket parts... or entire trigger groups like Timney

finally, proper bedding... given how a typical 10/22 is bolted down, supporting things properly goes a long ways to having a consistent shooter. If you can move it by hand, odds are it will move in firing... and results will be less then desired regardless of how expensive the stock/chassis costs.

A customer using the same spec McGowen barrel went with a DLASK (I think) and Oryx chassis.... but he also has a more modest set up that shoots great too.





50 yds I think



And at Longer distances

The depth of aftermarket parts is entirely up to the end user so from modest costs to exotic costs, all can shoot very well.

Proper spec barrels are really going to determine the rifles outcome. I put in alot of effort into creating a spec suitable for the LR CRPS type PRS games. The feedback from other shooters have been very positive and our results on the podium prove the point.

When temps warm, testing with a tuner will begin.



Some interesting results to far.

Jerry

 

[horseman2]

Standard Ruger 10/22 action with a KIDD trigger kit, Dlask Barrel and compensator.
Checking various lots of ammo for upcoming 100 Metre Rimfire Championships. Eley TENEX Biathlon was showing to be the best and with 10 rounds left shot a 0.631" group at 100 yards.

 

[45Auto]

I think this is going to be a very interesting thread, Longstud. Actually, it already is. Thanks for kicking it off.

 

[The ROC]

 

[DMS1]

I agree on the Volquartsen Competition bolt. After polishing a factory bolt and doing all of the work on it, I can honestly say that the VQ competition bolt is superior in many ways. Since the charging handle is not cantilevered through the clearance notch in the bolt the travel is more inline when charging the first round. The coating is slick and smooth and helps feed low velocity ammo, I've tried 3 brands of subsonic and they're good, the only thing it won't cycle is CCI quiets (there is supposed to be a semi auto quiet coming out?).

I used a VQ ultralite barrel, there are some posts on rimfirecentral about some bad VQ barrels with rough bores, I borescoped this one and it looks very good and is shooting well.

The Kidd single stage is pretty fantastic also, they say worth every penny and I guess shooting one is proof.

 

[Grantmac]

I think offhand the lock time would become a factor compared to a bolt.

 

[DMS1]

I think offhand the lock time would become a factor compared to a bolt.

I read of a trigger brand boasting a lock time quicker than a bolt, but can't recall. For the most part that is correct. I think trigger travel, weight and creep would have a great affect offhand also.

 

[Mystic Precision]

I think offhand the lock time would become a factor compared to a bolt.

If you can show me a bolt shooting PRS shooter versant in offhand shooting, I will be surprised. Lock time is the least of their worries

But there are 10/22 shooters scoring very well against their peers. Triggers can be upgraded and really, it isn't a big deal IF you know how to actually offhand shoot... wrt to the needs of the PRS game.

for small bore silhouette shooting, you would want a bolt.

Jerry

 

[Daniel G. Banting]

Well, Longstud suggested that he was "opening up a can of worms" so with that lack of specific focus or thread content here is my story.

I returned to rifle shooting after a 45 year hiatus that was brought about by the introduction of Sporting Clays. Now that I am recently retired with more time ( and less money ) the urge to return to a discipline requiring a single ( economical ?? ) projectile has replaced clays and expensive boutique shotguns.

Although age has it's benefits, shooting from barricades and other props requiring contorted shooting positions is not one of them. In spite of this I have been smitten by the ORPS/CRPS virus. The acquisition of a CZ 457 augmented by an MDT chassis was made. Ammo testing was begun immediately at the local gun club. While at the club I was often joined by two fellow members who also shot rimfires. Although they shared my interest in obtaining the best performance out of their respective firearms, that was were the commonality between them and me ended. They both shot semi autos. Both 10/22 derivatives. Every time I would see them at the club the talk would be of some new piece, part or adaptation they had made to ( hopefully ) improve the gun and it's performance. The other common denominator was the FUN they had shooting. They were often shooting at dueling trees or steel poppers and smiling and ribbing the whole time.

Having been involved in the shooting sports my whole life, I am not easily influenced by others and their equipment choices. I expect it is the result of pure coincidence that I began watching the EE ads. Pure coincidence that I recently went to the post office to pick up a parcel.

The first time I had the experience of holding 7 1/2 pounds of pure joy he was related to me!

I'll not say that that a Dlask DAR22 is therapeutic but it sure brings a smile to my face the few times I have had to shoot it so far. According to the former owner the gun was put together by Dlask. It utilizes their proprietary receiver a Kidd bolt and stainless 20" heavy barrel. The trigger appears to be a factory unit that Dlask did a wonderful job of reworking. Crisp, no creep and with the over travel stop they put in very little of that. It breaks clean at 2 lb 9 oz. Although I have only had chance to shoot it on two occasions it has impressed me both times. Not only with it's overall shooting character but it's ability to shoot economy ammo well. I expect to shoot some volume of ammo through this gun and was curious at to functioning and accuracy of "bulk" ammo. I have several cases of Federal Champion and CCI Blazer that I bought from a local dealer who was going out of the ammo business. I was pleasantly surprise to find that not only did the gun function just fine with both but it shot the Federal amazingly well. The Blazer worked flawlessly and if I had shot it first I would have thought it shot amazing. As it turns out the Blazer shoot just as well as the cheap Federal..................just at HALF the distance!

For those of you who are also shotgunners, that dime that we have all used to measure a Full choke, is .710". I've just discovered that I cannot attach photos in this format. They will follow along at some point.
dgb

 

[Daniel G. Banting]

Pictures to the above post

I bought 3 1/2 cases of Federal Champion at a local dealer who was getting out of the ammo business. I bought it with the thought of it being "disposable". The Gods smiled as it shoots well in my CZ457s and my new to me Dlask DAR. These groups are from a dozen or more similar groups ( some larger some smaller ). They are 10 shots @ 100. I did not make note as to the wind but I live in New Brunswick and they were shot in February! No photos but CCI Blazer shot this well @50. I was pleased with that as well.

As an addendum, another member who had been shooting clays at the club came down to visit the rifle range. He knew me mostly as a Sporting Clays shooter so was curious when he saw me shooting a rifle. I asked him if he would like to try it. He shot a 5 shot group at 50 slightly larger than the diameter of a single .22 bullet hole!!! I only let him shoot the once!

dgb

 

[Grantmac]

If you can show me a bolt shooting PRS shooter versant in offhand shooting, I will be surprised. Lock time is the least of their worries

But there are 10/22 shooters scoring very well against their peers. Triggers can be upgraded and really, it isn't a big deal IF you know how to actually offhand shoot... wrt to the needs of the PRS game.

for small bore silhouette shooting, you would want a bolt.

Jerry

I'm predominantly a silhouette shooter who also does production ORPS, the offhand stages are usually my best.

 

[Mystic Precision]

I'm predominantly a silhouette shooter who also does production ORPS, the offhand stages are usually my best.

Pity, there so few points tied to unsupported positional shooting... but that is the nature of the game

Enjoy the prs game... if you ever want to make the others stages easier to shoot, just let me know

Jerry

 

[wallz]

Ooooohhhh a wabbit hole!

I dove into the deeper end years back. Ended up ordering out of the US a tactical solutions receiver out of the US before any dealers started to carry them up here. My logic: the firing pin thru the bolt, the dual recoil rod, plus the scope mounted to barrel. This was a take down, and with the volquartsen carbon barrel, this one is a keeper. 1/2" groups at 50 yrds is attainable, with cheaper ammo. Eley action seems to be a good middle ground, as I have always been to cheap to get the better stuff.

That started me down into the deep. I have bought and sold a few different combos since putting that one together. I think I have tried about 6 or 7 in the last 2 years. Nothing against any manufacturers, but this has been my experience, this is just what I ran into, so take it at face value.
Tried several triggers, Kidd, Timney calvin Elite, BX, stock. By far the best is the Kidd.

Bolts: The volquartsen comp has been the best. The GBS is the only other one out there that used the same firing pin design. The tacsol is on another playing field, and is not inter changable with standard receivers, but has a special place for me. The only other one worth the mention here is my new setup, with the last shot hold open feature. That is just an awesome little feature benefit that is just not matched out there, yet on the 10/22.

Barrels: I have not tried a kidd, or IBI, yet, but those would be top of the heap(the kidd ones seem sold out when ever I need one), with the volquartsen/ Dlask carbon sitting next. I have heard some volquartsen quality issues since, but can't comment on that. Have had several Dlask carbon barrels that just shoot. I do have a IBI barrel on order, but that is going onto a bolt gun.

With a tuner, dlask tuff 22 rcv, dlask carbon 16" barrel, I was able to print consistent 5/8" groups at 100 yrds. With Eley action ammo. Tuners, are worth the effort. This was sitting in the GBS foundation stock. Their stocks are worth the effort. Light, and sturdy.

Tried the GBS fusion action/barrel system, and was not impressed, and have moved on since to other pursuits.

My latest build was more for my wife, and more color oriented, and that one you can see in the 10/22 pic thread.

 

[DMS1]

Ooooohhhh a wabbit hole!

I dove into the deeper end years back. Ended up ordering out of the US a tactical solutions receiver out of the US before any dealers started to carry them up here. My logic: the firing pin thru the bolt, the dual recoil rod, plus the scope mounted to barrel. This was a take down, and with the volquartsen carbon barrel, this one is a keeper. 1/2" groups at 50 yrds is attainable, with cheaper ammo. Eley action seems to be a good middle ground, as I have always been to cheap to get the better stuff.

That started me down into the deep. I have bought and sold a few different combos since putting that one together. I think I have tried about 6 or 7 in the last 2 years. Nothing against any manufacturers, but this has been my experience, this is just what I ran into, so take it at face value.
Tried several triggers, Kidd, Timney calvin Elite, BX, stock. By far the best is the Kidd.

Bolts: The volquartsen comp has been the best. The GBS is the only other one out there that used the same firing pin design. The tacsol is on another playing field, and is not inter changable with standard receivers, but has a special place for me. The only other one worth the mention here is my new setup, with the last shot hold open feature. That is just an awesome little feature benefit that is just not matched out there, yet on the 10/22.

Barrels: I have not tried a kidd, or IBI, yet, but those would be top of the heap(the kidd ones seem sold out when ever I need one), with the volquartsen/ Dlask carbon sitting next. I have heard some volquartsen quality issues since, but can't comment on that. Have had several Dlask carbon barrels that just shoot. I do have a IBI barrel on order, but that is going onto a bolt gun.

With a tuner, dlask tuff 22 rcv, dlask carbon 16" barrel, I was able to print consistent 5/8" groups at 100 yrds. With Eley action ammo. Tuners, are worth the effort. This was sitting in the GBS foundation stock. Their stocks are worth the effort. Light, and sturdy.

Tried the GBS fusion action/barrel system, and was not impressed, and have moved on since to other pursuits.

My latest build was more for my wife, and more color oriented, and that one you can see in the 10/22 pic thread.

Thanks for the tip on the fusion. I was wondering if I was missing out on something, but only being able to use proprietary barrels seemed like a bad idea. If my Volquartsen didn’t perform, I was prepared to swap it for a Kidd lightweight.

After popping a barrel on and off a factory receiver to thread it, and then installing the VQ on an SBI receiver, I can’t believe the night and day difference in fit, finish and tolerance. The factory barrel had play and was easily cocked or misaligned. The SBI/VQ combo was a firm tap fit, and I didn’t realize it, but the flange that overhangs the barrel for the rail and the V block are bored to .001” of .920 and support the barrel as well ad the flange does. On the VQ with some shell 14 helicopter grease, it left a slight witness mark in the coating (carbon barrel, black ends) and was a perfect fit to hel prevent barrel sag.

In addition to the extra room to spread your scope rings farther apart and give more mounting options, this support offered by the extended rail seems like a superior design.

Except my goal was to be under 5lbs before scope and accessories, I have rad that the VQ stainless receiver is un-rivaled for strength and support.

 

[Grantmac]

Pity, there so few points tied to unsupported positional shooting... but that is the nature of the game

Enjoy the prs game... if you ever want to make the others stages easier to shoot, just let me know

Jerry

Other than a bag and bipod there isn't much I can do in production.
Trying a reasonably priced FFP optic right now to see if it's manageable for silhouette, if so a better one is my next investment.

 

[Longstud]

Post a pic! Sounds like the same rabbit hole I just went down. What are you using for a trigger? I haven’t tried much but CCI standard velocity seems very accurate. I have some Tennex, Lapua and SK to try but it doesn’t seem to care for sk standard. For HV Force semi auto (black bullets and case) look very good too. Did you go light weight or steel barrel? I just posted up in the pic gallery today. This one is 6.5lbs.

View attachment 568768

Nice looking build. I have tried almost all the triggers. Kidd is in a league of its own. Nothing comes close. I have both single stage and two stage. I really like the flat blade two stage trigger. They’re quite pricey but worth ever penny. The barrel I used is the SS Kidd and I put it in a Victor Titan with the spike. The stock reminds me of my McMillan A5. I like the grip angle and it fits my big hand well.

 

[Longstud]

Tell us more Longstud. I have really been curious about this. My IBI barreled T1X is continuing to impress me, but my factory 10/22 Competition is equal to it better than the factory Tikka. A reliable semi that shoots as well as a bolt is a better mousetrap unless centerfire training is the goal. How much $$$? A Tikka or CZ with an IBI in an ACC ain’t cheap either.

If I remember correctly it was around $2000 or a bit more for all of it. The Kidd trigger and barrel was $1000. I like them so much I built several for friends. One of them is winning matches on a regular basis. At a match in the fall the fellow shot the entire match with only one miss. It actually wasn’t a miss but timed out with one round remaining. We had him shoot the round to see and of course Impact. Tony Norman is the fellow I speak of using a gun I put together.