Semi-auto magazine capacity
- Thread starter Brendon292
- Start date
KotKotofeich
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa Valley
That won't save you from a stupid cop who starts stuffin 1 3/4 shells in. And there's no way to save yourself from a stupid cop, even if you give up guns completely...
KotKotofeich
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa Valley
Are the regulations I quoted enough to make you happy or do you need more?
I would figure that a small town cop would be the ones most familiar with civilian firearm ownership. Perhaps out east it is different.
Brendon292
CGN Regular
- Location
- Kingston, ON
I do appreciate your help, but...
I was specifically looking for case law or published government interpretation on the regulations. I mentioned that in my post.
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Brendon292
CGN Regular
- Location
- Kingston, ON
Small city probably would have been a better use of words. Large enough to not have a ton of the typical rural folk who are firearms hobbyists but small enough to not have significant gun crime. Kingston, where I live, is a good example. It's also extremely Liberal so sports shooters are uncommon. I do not have any faith in local police to be well versed on firearm regulations. It's not necessarily their fault, either. If they never encounter that subsection of law, how can they be expected to understand it?
KotKotofeich
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa Valley
No worries, just getting confirmation.
There is the bulletin from the rcmp but it doesn't address the tubular mags... (https://rcmp.ca/en/firearms/classes-firearms/maximum-permitted-magazine-capacity)
I do not recall any case law on the subject, you may have to pay a lawyer or a paralegal for that, unfortunately.
Brendon292
CGN Regular
- Location
- Kingston, ON
You're 100% right. It would be pretty expensive just for paperwork that can prove to a cop that 6 rounds of 2.75" are okay in a 3" gun. Seems like my options are to use my 1301 in factory configuration and be 100% safe or use it with the extended tube and be 99.999% safe.
There is nothing you can do if you run into an obstinate, ignorant LEO who is sure he is right. He will do whatever he feels is correct/appropriate regardless of what you say and then you have to untangle it all after the fact with his supervisor/crown attorney/etc. Sad fact of life under our legal system. You shouldn't need a lawyer to untangle it, but it will be a hassle and a PITA.
If the cop is dead sure he is right, showing him a court case or whatever other legal papers you like on the side of the road is not going to change his mind.
Why are you expecting a cop to be checking your mag capacity? That has to be one of the most obscure things imaginable for them to be checking without a lot of other context and reasons to look. The only people I've ever seen care about mag capacity are CO's when checking someone who is out bird hunting.
Mark
I think you are thinking about this all wrong.
The better bet is to carry 6 rounds of 3" ammo and then demonstrate that the gun will only hold 5 (not all 6 - ie legal for a firearm with a 3" chamber). Game over.
Doesn’t the saying go something like “ignorance of the law is not an excuse”
This exactly.
A regular cop is never going to sit there and start inserting shells into your shotgun to see if it holds 5... or 6. Why would they? If you're storing and transporting your firearms according to the the law this would never happen.
This would only ever happen if there were other obvious violations or some sort of crime was committed and you were a suspect.
Store and transport your firearms as prescribed by law and you have nothing to worry about....
This thread is a nothing burger...
Brendon292
CGN Regular
- Location
- Kingston, ON
The odds are incredibly low, I've acknowledged that. My curiosity (and a bit of paranoia) however, has me wondering about all sorts of things. I used google and chatgpt to try and find an answer but came up empty handed. Paying for a lawyer didn't seem necessary because there is almost no risk. The obvious solution was to consult fellow sports shooters and hobbyists.
Generating conversations and asking questions is quite literally the purpose of forums. If the topic is of no interest, you're free not to engage.
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But many shotguns have 2-3/4", 3" and 3-1/2", stamped on the barrel, so it could be argued, that the magazine was designed for 2-3/4", 3" or 3-1/2". The regulations should be worded" the longest cartridges of the type the magazine was originally designed for".
Brendon292
CGN Regular
- Location
- Kingston, ON
That only applies to civilians. In the hypothetical scenario where a cop or conservation officer checks the capacity of your semi-auto shotgun (extremely unlikely), you are at their mercy. If they interpret the law differently, you will be arrested. There is no question in my mind the crown would drop charges after reviewing the legistration. You'd still be dragged through the courts and the arresting officer would get no more than a five minute "coaching" session from their sergeant.
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In that instance the gun is designed for 3-1/2" and is backwards compatible for the other (smaller) sizes. The additional stampings with the 2-3/4" & 3" simply confirms they can be used in the gun.
And if it is designed for 3-1/2" then the magazine capacity should accommodate that (ie can hold 5 rounds of 3-1/2" but not 6). If it is a concern carry 6 rounds of 3-1/2" so you could prove (if required) you are on the right side of the law.
KotKotofeich
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa Valley
Hate to be that guy, but what the gun is designed for is irrelevant, it's what the _magazine_ is designed for. Yes it's ridiculous as it applies to tube mags.
Is the mag marked 3 1/2? No? Then anyone's guess.
I linked the rcmp bulletin about that above where they go into detail a bit as it applies to other mags
If your "paranoia" is getting the better of you... Just do what has been suggested already and carry 5 shells of the appropriate size so you can "prove" the gun is functioning as it should.
No. If chambered for 3.5" shells, then the magazine is defined to hold no more than 5 shells/rounds if the shotgun is semi-auto. Your interpretation would be called "an absurdity" at law.
Now, here's a nuance. Let's say the gun was chambered from the factory for 3" shells, but then you either bore the chamber out to 3.5" yourself, have a smith do it, or buy an aftermarket barrel that has a 3.5" chamber. Would an extension allowing 6 or more 3" shells be compliant so long as 6, 3.5" shells won't load into the mag? In this scenario, the "designer" of the shotgun didn't anticipate a 3.5" shell, OR, by the functioning of resizing the chambering, are you/smith/aftermarket supplier now assuming the role of designer?
I'd argue the latter.
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If your "paranoia" is getting the better of you... Just do what has been suggested already and carry 5 shells of the appropriate size so you can "prove" the gun is functioning as it should.
Way cheaper than arrests / lawyer bills etc etc and generally when people "see" something like this explained in practical terms even the most stubborn will have a tough time not accepting it.
