seriously... why is black badge training so expensive?

It is very simple and easy to use and follow, etc...
and quicker way to score a stage, for matches running smoother
but these factors shouldn't be what you consider in choosing a scoring system... finding a good way that better represents each shooters skill level compared to the others, should weigh more.
IMHO

as far as I can see your trying to compare the IDPA scoring system to the IPSC scoring system(which you have stated is "better")......Why not compare it to golf or Nascar.....because then your argument about falls apart

"finding a good way that better represents each shooters skill level compared to the others"

If I shoot a terrible round of golf and my buddies score is lower than mine......should I still win because I beat him twice before?
Nope .....cause thats the way the game is scored

same applies to racing or any other sport......Why is IPSC different.....Not that I care it is different ( I do shoot IDPA and not IPSC) but your statement on the face of it does not hold water at all
 
Please explain the "ice dancing component" of IDPA scoring.

Colt can't explain his problems with IDPA scoring because he has no idea how it works and would bet even money he doesn't know how IPSC scoring is done either.

It is the same part I have refered to as Ice dance in the past.........well for years actually.

The ability of the SO to apply penalties based upon very difficult "perspective" issues.


Each sport attracts different individuals. Some like one over the other and others shoot both. Both have their appeal. I know shooters who have tried IPSC and decided it is not the sport for them, so too IDPA. If we all felt the same way there would be one happy lady/man in this world and a whole lot of unhappy ones.;) Be happy you have choices.

Take Care

Bob

Oh absolutely..........and others like me enjoy both but sadly do not have the time to participate equally in both.
 
It is the same part I have refered to as Ice dance in the past.........well for years actually.

The ability of the SO to apply penalties based upon very difficult "perspective" issues.




Oh absolutely..........and others like me enjoy both but sadly do not have the time to participate equally in both.

Storm you should take the SO course and your concerns might change significantly. Any call made by a referee in a sport is subject to "perspective".

Where I can I switch my mag release to the right side of the gun as I prefer to use my trigger finger to hit the mag release. Shooting IPSC when I come to the line I always inform the RO of this. Why? Because I don't want a DQ because from his angle it appears my finger is in the trigger guard when I am reloading when in fact it is pushing on the mag release.

The IDPA cover call is the most common penalty in IDPA and it is an easy call to make. No different than IPSC fault lines. Training SO's to make the call is a whoile different issue.;)

Happy New Year

Bob
ps You only get one trip around so get out and shoot as often as you can. Both sports.
 
I can honestly say that I have never seen a new shooter blame the scoring system for their failure before, but I guess there is a first for everything.

Nevertheless, I'll try to offer my perspective on your concerns. But seriously, read the rulebook before you go calling the scoring system unfair.

but in a match, with multi stages and multi shooters, you have times of the stages (of which can be longer time, if certain penalties are added for mistakes, etc..) and then all stage times are added up to give overall time, as your final score (is this idpa ? or just individual scoring i've come across ?)



So, how is this fair ? if at least 2 stage match or 3 or 6, etc..stage match, then one stage that you totally ruined by very long time), can still give an overall time to ruin the entire match for you.. instead of it ruining that stage result and definately hurting your overall result...
That one bad stage shouldn't be able to ruin your whole match.. IMHO.

Yes, one stage can ruin your match, just like an IPSC stage. Do you think you're going to win an ipsc match if you zero a stage? If you're the kinda guy blowing an entire stage, take my word for it, you're not going to be winning matches. Applies to multi-gun too.


And if one runs thru a stage really quick and short time, but very sloppy hits and he/she is given the added seconds for those sloppy hits and maybe even fails to engage a target or three..but those were very hard to shoot targets that would have taken said time to go thru that part, will the penalty be enough to erase the seconds he/she saved by running past it and enough penalty too have truly hurt the score over another shooter who's gone thru the COF as it was intended ?

IDPA rewards accuracy over speed. Stiff penalties are applied for "blowing through targets" which pretty much requires shooters to do the stage as intended. If you think you can pick up a penalty and be ahead of those who don't, you're probably wrong....but not always. If you intentionally pick up a penalty without fully engaging a target, you can get an FTDR, which will definitely leave you at the bottom of the pack.

End of the day, in IDPA you pretty much have to shoot the stage as intended as accurately as you can. The person who does it the fastest (usually with low to moderate points down) will win.

My experience with shooting with regular IPSC guys is that they can have a tough time adjusting....suggesting that its not good enough to just blow through stages. Points down in IDPA add up, quickly. I think this is mostly due to the FTN. Two C's in IDPA doesn't cut it.

It's the same goign the other way, when I shoot IPSC I have a tough time adjusting. The scoring is more formula based so its harder to make decisions on how thoroughly and accurately to engage a target.


If you fail to finish, how many seconds are added to your time ? and are those enough to make sure he/she has worse score then someone who shot entire stage, but just reeeeeaaaaaaally slow, due to their skill or other reasons ?

Failure to finish is usually from a broken gun, read the rulebook for how that stage is scored. If you intentionally fail to finish, you'll be scored for penalties, points down and an FTDR. You will not come out ahead by intentionally failing to finish a stage, I can guarantee it.

and have the 2 or 3 or 5, etc... seconds added for what ever penalties, been calculated to properly represent fair and accurate penalty, in balance to what others may shoot the stage in ?

What do you mean in balance to other shooters? The penalties apply the same to everyone! If someone gets a FTN, its 5 seconds...not 5 seconds for one guy and 10 seconds for another. If you think the penalty is unfair, then make sure to get your hits! There's no need to "calculate" an appropriate penalty...there designed to be punitive to ensure that you shoot accurately.

I'm not saying that ipsc scoring is better cause i'm regular ipsc shooter.. but it just seems to be a pretty cool formula created to better gauge ones performance compared to another and a terrible stage lowers your overall score, but can't ruin an entire match...

Terrible scores in IPSC are the same in IDPA....you have to shoot consistently well in both to be able to win.

Again, IMHO
I'm not bashing the sport itself, cause it way COOL, as Ipsc, but in its own way...just think the scoring system needs to be modified.... not that we'll win any great prizes and free trips, etc.. but just to be fair.. IMHO
 
Onagoth summed it better than I could.

As a reminder, in IDPA you cannot miss fast enough.

"Terrible scores in IPSC are the same in IDPA....you have to shoot consistently well in both to be able to win." which may explain a concept my shooting ability hasn't grasped....but I am still having fun.


Take Care

Bob
 
I am not IDPA person, don't mind it, but not enough time to shoot both, but isn't very judgemental when RO calls on a shooter when he is not enough behind cover?
I have friends who participate in IDPA World Shoot this year in Frostproof and one of them was complaining that RO was a real prick calling things against him and allowing others same thing.
 
as far as I can see your trying to compare the IDPA scoring system to the IPSC scoring system(which you have stated is "better")......Why not compare it to golf or Nascar.....because then your argument about falls apart

"finding a good way that better represents each shooters skill level compared to the others"

If I shoot a terrible round of golf and my buddies score is lower than mine......should I still win because I beat him twice before?
Nope .....cause thats the way the game is scored

same applies to racing or any other sport......Why is IPSC different.....Not that I care it is different ( I do shoot IDPA and not IPSC) but your statement on the face of it does not hold water at all

i don't think you made any sense..
 
I can honestly say that I have never seen a new shooter blame the scoring system for their failure before, but I guess there is a first for everything.

Nevertheless, I'll try to offer my perspective on your concerns. But seriously, read the rulebook before you go calling the scoring system unfair.

o.k. you've clarified a few points... but one really bad stage will ruin your match, where in ipsc, it will not.. yes of course you're not going to win the entire match(as in 1st place) with terrible stage, but you can still place 5th or 11th, etc...where as idpa scoring, if long enough time on that blown stage, it can even put you last place overall...
I'm not saying it terrible scoring system in the entire planet.. just could use some tweaking to be more balance.....IMHO

And I'm not new shooter...And I think I do o.k., if I do say so myself...:D
 
Anyways, for tonight, lets all just HAVE FUN & only worry about calculating Blood-alchohol levels and arrive home safe !! :)
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL !!!
 
o.k. you've clarified a few points... but one really bad stage will ruin your match, where in ipsc, it will not.. yes of course you're not going to win the entire match(as in 1st place) with terrible stage, but you can still place 5th or 11th, etc...where as idpa scoring, if long enough time on that blown stage, it can even put you last place overall...
I'm not saying it terrible scoring system in the entire planet.. just could use some tweaking to be more balance.....IMHO

And I'm not new shooter...And I think I do o.k., if I do say so myself...:D

To summarize you don't understand IDPA scoring, haven't read the rule book, have shot at least one IDPA match and on this basis you feel we should change our scoring system so if you blow a stage real bad you won't finish last. Have I missed something?

You will forgive me if I don't jump on that right away.

Take Care

Bob
 
Nope you didn't there is no such thing as a "D" in IDPA.

Take Care

Bob

I know. You should have re-read Onagoth's post before spouting off. He was trying explain things to an IPSC shooter with minimal knowledge of IDPA scoring therefore used ISPC vergage to make his point. Unfortunately he used the wrong scoring zone to do so.
 
It is the same part I have refered to as Ice dance in the past.........well for years actually.

The ability of the SO to apply penalties based upon very difficult "perspective" issues.




Oh absolutely..........and others like me enjoy both but sadly do not have the time to participate equally in both.

Totally agree with you, that's my main beef with IDPA scoring too. The Ice Dancing analogy is completely accurate. Now if we could just get rid of that French judge....
 
Totally agree with you, that's my main beef with IDPA scoring too. The Ice Dancing analogy is completely accurate. Now if we could just get rid of that French judge....

And this differs fro IPSC tp calling a DQ for breaking 180 or a finger violation ...how? If you knew how the SO makes the call you would know more of what you speak of as it is you don't.

Take Care

Bob
 
And this differs fro IPSC tp calling a DQ for breaking 180 or a finger violation ...how? If you knew how the SO makes the call you would know more of what you speak of as it is you don't.

Take Care

Bob

You have absolutely no idea what I know or don't know, so don't make incorrect assumptions that make your counterpoint fall on deaf ears.

My view is that calling a penalty on a competitor that affects scoring and calling a safety violation that results in a competitor being disqualified from the match entirely are not even remotely close to being the same. Every person on the planet has a bias on just about everything, even though most people are well intentioned. Therefore calling a subjective penalty on a competitor allows a well intentioned official to have that bias come through, which I am personally aware of happening.

If you can't get that through your head then we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
Back
Top Bottom