seriously... why is black badge training so expensive?
- Thread starter easysauce
- Start date
like i said earlier, need something when there is a foot of snow on the ground and I CANNOT 3gun since season is over, so something to do once a month, for maybe 2-3 months a year, IF im not out of town or working. or maybe i just dont want to that month, Im more into carbine/shotty/rifle shooting anyway, but pistols are still a hoot, just my least favorite. It just does not seem drop in friendly, if I go a year w/o a match i have to repay.
if pistol is transferable to 3 gun, why not rifle/shot/pistol transferable to a pistol match then?
I just found it odd that im "qualified" to shoot 3 gun, but not IPSC, and I cannot challenge the test
WRAS, I paid 40$ to join Wild rose action shooting club, first match was on them, about 40$ for the two day match fees, and before anyone starts, after seeing the divide between some IPDA and IPSC peeps, i dont even want to hear about "thats not real 3 gun" or whatever, cause Im having FUN, and if you actually read my earlier posts, I go into detail the absolutely awesome set up these guys did. creative COF, all kinds of diff targets, multiple gun runs, uses IPSC type targets and an official scoring system (i believe its the same as IPSC, alpha charlie no hit ect).
did you mention in previous posts the detailed info on the training course they gave you ? if so, please copy and past in new post, so we all who are curious do not have to scroll thru 15 pages of posts to find it.. if not mentioned, please do so..
they might as well just be the best club out there and thats great.. and the COF might be awesome !!.. but the main topic at hand is the training course being to costly, etc.. so we're curious what was in their training course you took..
honestly, not being sarcastic..
they might as well just be the best club out there and thats great.. and the COF might be awesome !!.. but the main topic at hand is the training course being to costly, etc.. so we're curious what was in their training course you took..
honestly, not being sarcastic..
ok heres a repost for those that wanted it:
for 3 gun, I paid 40$ for my membership first match was free, got 16 hours of fun, lots of instruction, was a learn by doing approach where I was slowly walked through every course of fire, at my own pace to pick up the more minute details, included the match fee too. put through about 300 rifle rounds, 150 pistol, 50ish shotgun, safety rules were gone over, scoring rules ect, did all the COF, so prone, urbane prone, ect with all guns, ordered shooting, shoot open a door, flying clays, swingers, el presidente, clam shells, steel targets, and tons more creative COF's that really challenged me (I found out i SUCK shooting urban prone with my pistol). its done during a normal match so it is not a "course" par se, the newbies get paired with very experienced RO's. It seemed to me like the ideal way to learn how to 3gun. everything people have listed as things you learn in a BB course, was taught there, but in addition, it was taught with a rifle and shotgun as well.
I think the reason its cheaper, is because the organizers and RO's are volunteer club members, they dont actually earn a living off the sport.
again, I am not critical the course, just the COST, just wondered WHY it was 5 times more expensive to join IPSC as a sport, then to join 3gun as a sport.
***again*** not talking about the goodness/badness, just didnt know WHY its costs 300 to get into IPSC but only 40$ to get into 3 gun. I got my answer, its because the instructors in IPSC get paid, while the ROs for the 3gun club are volunteer,
for 3 gun, I paid 40$ for my membership first match was free, got 16 hours of fun, lots of instruction, was a learn by doing approach where I was slowly walked through every course of fire, at my own pace to pick up the more minute details, included the match fee too. put through about 300 rifle rounds, 150 pistol, 50ish shotgun, safety rules were gone over, scoring rules ect, did all the COF, so prone, urbane prone, ect with all guns, ordered shooting, shoot open a door, flying clays, swingers, el presidente, clam shells, steel targets, and tons more creative COF's that really challenged me (I found out i SUCK shooting urban prone with my pistol). its done during a normal match so it is not a "course" par se, the newbies get paired with very experienced RO's. It seemed to me like the ideal way to learn how to 3gun. everything people have listed as things you learn in a BB course, was taught there, but in addition, it was taught with a rifle and shotgun as well.
I think the reason its cheaper, is because the organizers and RO's are volunteer club members, they dont actually earn a living off the sport.
again, I am not critical the course, just the COST, just wondered WHY it was 5 times more expensive to join IPSC as a sport, then to join 3gun as a sport.
***again*** not talking about the goodness/badness, just didnt know WHY its costs 300 to get into IPSC but only 40$ to get into 3 gun. I got my answer, its because the instructors in IPSC get paid, while the ROs for the 3gun club are volunteer,
you specifically said, if I'm qualified to shoot this 3 gun, why I'm not qualified to shoot ipsc... though your course you took may have been the bomb, I'm sure you can appreciate that not every training course out there is good, but can be poorly executed, thus passing on less then steller training to shooters, also giving false sense of qualification and maybe even making the shooter unsafe, unknown to themselves..
I've personally have seen basic firemarms club level course that was very sub-par and felt bad for the new shooters going thru it... but not my place to step in and correct and better half the things being taught..
That said, you don't know if the ipsc bb course is the bomb or not, but you're hearing all the praises from most on here about it's validity, and there must be good reason when high % of people whom have actually taken a BB course are saying it's worth it..
so, you asked the question and most have answered why it's worth the price...
if you weren't thinking you'd receive such positive info on it, you shouldn't have bothered to post the question...
Re: cost of gear and ammo... thats all up to you.. many ipsc shooters keep it basic and don't expect to win matches, but havin a hell of a blast and that's what its about, as is 3 gun, idpa, cowboy action, etc...
You don't think it's worth it, then no worries. But if have chance to go to idpa, ipsc matces come your way, go hang out and shoot the sh!t and check it out...
all shooting is good shooting...
so, only makes sense that a very well organized group like (ipsc), other than the politics.. would want to know their members have been trained accordingly to shoot safe in such a dynamic style of shooting...
I've personally have seen basic firemarms club level course that was very sub-par and felt bad for the new shooters going thru it... but not my place to step in and correct and better half the things being taught..
That said, you don't know if the ipsc bb course is the bomb or not, but you're hearing all the praises from most on here about it's validity, and there must be good reason when high % of people whom have actually taken a BB course are saying it's worth it..
so, you asked the question and most have answered why it's worth the price...
if you weren't thinking you'd receive such positive info on it, you shouldn't have bothered to post the question...
Re: cost of gear and ammo... thats all up to you.. many ipsc shooters keep it basic and don't expect to win matches, but havin a hell of a blast and that's what its about, as is 3 gun, idpa, cowboy action, etc...
You don't think it's worth it, then no worries. But if have chance to go to idpa, ipsc matces come your way, go hang out and shoot the sh!t and check it out...
all shooting is good shooting...
so, only makes sense that a very well organized group like (ipsc), other than the politics.. would want to know their members have been trained accordingly to shoot safe in such a dynamic style of shooting...
IMO, that's exactly why IPSC needs a non-BB qualification program. People interested in the sport should have the ability to simply demonstrate safety and competence without taking the whole 'course'
Easysauce sounds like he was in the same position as me. Already a safe and experienced shooter, but has to take a course targeted towards newer shooters to participate.
Funny thing is - I was SOO anti BB course and mostly its cost just two years ago, and am totally opposite now.
I still think that a person should have a choice to take the course or to challenge it.
The reason I was 'anti' - I was very lucky and didn't really realize it - I had a few private lessons from a very experienced shooter; and I live very close to US border and was able to travel to and be a member of an US range and to shoot USPSA matches with a choice of shooting a match every Sunday for $20-25.
USPSA Safety Check (mandatory) was Free and took only 45mins and about 120rds with 1-on-1 test (well, I already had some experience by then). Then IDPA holster qualification was free since I had my USPSA/IPSC (USPSA membership includes IPSC membership, but only for US residents). So, technically, it cost me nada to get into USPSA and IDPA to start with.
Well, my case was VERY Unique.
Then, shooting IPSC in Canada made me open my mind, eyes and wallet a bit more … LOL, which actually were closed at that time.
To make story short - I taught and still try to teach new and somewhat new shooters very versatile skills - they can go with IDPA, IPSC or USPSA, or all of the above. But, it takes at least 12 hrs of range time for a person to prove they are safe and capable. At least to me.
I still think that a person should have a choice to take the course or to challenge it.
The reason I was 'anti' - I was very lucky and didn't really realize it - I had a few private lessons from a very experienced shooter; and I live very close to US border and was able to travel to and be a member of an US range and to shoot USPSA matches with a choice of shooting a match every Sunday for $20-25.
USPSA Safety Check (mandatory) was Free and took only 45mins and about 120rds with 1-on-1 test (well, I already had some experience by then). Then IDPA holster qualification was free since I had my USPSA/IPSC (USPSA membership includes IPSC membership, but only for US residents). So, technically, it cost me nada to get into USPSA and IDPA to start with.
Well, my case was VERY Unique.
Then, shooting IPSC in Canada made me open my mind, eyes and wallet a bit more … LOL, which actually were closed at that time.
To make story short - I taught and still try to teach new and somewhat new shooters very versatile skills - they can go with IDPA, IPSC or USPSA, or all of the above. But, it takes at least 12 hrs of range time for a person to prove they are safe and capable. At least to me.
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I see your point but I still think the course is important for if nothing else
"MY" safety. The way to challenge the the test is to complete the whole course. Anybody can look good for a few draws and movements, what I want to know is under pressure and time after a long day at a match are they still safe. Many sports require certain qualifications if you want to play. If you don't qualify you don't play, even to help coach minor hockey I had to take a safety course, a coaching clinic and a speakout class. Aprox 12 hours of my time and $300 later.
The problem is that everybody already "thinks" they are a safe and experienced shooter. Just like everyone thinks they are a great driver and I watch idiots all day long on the road and shake my head. You only have to go watch the line at a general shooters night to see the different levels of gun awarness, safety, etc.. I am not saying you are anyone else is not safe but if you pass the black badge it makes me feel a little more secure that my self or the shooter will be able to have a fun match and go home without any extra holes in us. After all we are playing with real guns and live ammo and some people just are scary with thier gun handling.
As far as cost goes, if you are worried about the price of the course this is just not a sport for you. I watch so many people take the course and for every 10 people who take only one or two actually show up to matches regularly. Shooting sports are expensive in general and IPSC is no exception. If you practice IPDA with 500 rounds or IPSC with 500 rounds it cost the same. As far as fancy gear goes, usually the top shooters are the guys with the basic gear. Really you need a gun that works well and all the time. If the gun isnt reliable you can't win.
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
You are talking IDPA right? I mean they are in fact a business with owners etc.
IPSC .........well there are certainly some shenanigans at the World level that I am not happy with (as one can see in other threads) but it is not a business per se.
Yes for control purposes. Wilson saw what happened to USPSA and didn't want to go that route. To many cooks in the kitchen.
Take Care
Bob
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
Yes for control purposes. Wilson saw what happened to USPSA and didn't want to go that route. To many cooks in the kitchen.
Take Care
Bob
Well I honestly do not know which format I like better..........
An owner who can make up his own rules......
or
A "generic group" with an elected leadership that is tantamount to an oligarchy with zero hope of ousting given the current structure.
Well if it makes you feel better IDPA is currently reviewing our rule book using members input drawn from around the world. Our rule book can use a review incidentally. Bill Wilson and his BoD will have ultimate say in the matter.
I was under the impression IPSC members elect their representatives and Canada has one vote when it comes to issues requiring a vote. Seems like a democratic method to me.
Both systems seem to work. The complaining that goes on in both sports goes with the territory me thinks.
Take Care
Bob
and they charge you $50 to be listed in their 5-gun classification thingy.
