Service Rifle Calgary
- Thread starter robpad
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Agreed - you were prolific on the APRA website as well. Regardless, I feel free to form my own opinions from multiple sources, not just what you want to tell me.
I share skepticism with Beltfed about this happening at Homestead, but I'm hopefully optimistic that as Rich indicates, SR may revive itself on another range in AB (hopefully with a flat range floor this time!).
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Really? How so?
Actually a number of us requested the books that were paid for by an individual member and attempted to reinstate the club. They have never been produced for the membership.
So here is the story. Dues were paid by members to the CSRA.
APRA claims their portion of dues was not paid in full for three years. They request a list of members and the outstanding dues.
President claims he paid APRA by cash out of the chequeing account but has no receipts. What kind of moron would pay by cash?
CSRA bank account has very low balance. Only two people had access to funds and they are not talking.
I'm not satisfied the APRA is out of line. As the club ceased to be an entity in Alberta as a result of the executive not keeping it current perhaps bylaws don't apply. Maybe if an individual pays to have the books done they are private property and not subject to scrutiny by the membership? There were no meetings. No treasurers report or minutes read. In short the club was run very poorly and everyone has to take some responsibility.
I'd say the CSRA membership got screwed all right but not by the APRA.
Well Seafury:
1. APRA money person was on stress leave and not talking due to missing money, can't place all of the blame on the Service Rifle membership guy.
2. One of the Service Rifle members paid out of his own pocket to have the Service Rifle Club's books done, but APRA didn't like this or want to accept the audit done by an independent person.
3. Please read me previous post, I as a member of the Alberta Full Bore Rifle Club proposed to take over Service Rifle, under the umbrella of the Full Bore Club, but was rejected.
4. Service Rifle provided all documentation that they had to the APRA, then said they would accept whatever number of members the APRA came up with...and pay for that number...but no number was ever give.
If a number was given, then the Service Rifle club would have started paying for each and everyone of that number, but a number was never provided by the APRA, because that would have been part of the solution to begin correcting the wrongs.
Your statement of blaming everyone is unbelievable. There are many members who simply paid for their membership, came out, shot matches and then carried on with their busy lives, how in good conscience can they be blamed for for their membership dues not making it to the APRA? How would they know any different. Some members barely know other members by their first name let alone what is going on beyond that with memberships and APRA politics. This was however a very convenient way to have the entire Service Rifle Club membership banned / locked out of the range. Rather than dealing with the membership problems it was an terrible "Easy Out" to simple kick out all of the club members, regardless of what they knew...or in most cases...didn't know.
Rich
1. APRA money person was on stress leave and not talking due to missing money, can't place all of the blame on the Service Rifle membership guy.
2. One of the Service Rifle members paid out of his own pocket to have the Service Rifle Club's books done, but APRA didn't like this or want to accept the audit done by an independent person.
3. Please read me previous post, I as a member of the Alberta Full Bore Rifle Club proposed to take over Service Rifle, under the umbrella of the Full Bore Club, but was rejected.
4. Service Rifle provided all documentation that they had to the APRA, then said they would accept whatever number of members the APRA came up with...and pay for that number...but no number was ever give.
If a number was given, then the Service Rifle club would have started paying for each and everyone of that number, but a number was never provided by the APRA, because that would have been part of the solution to begin correcting the wrongs.
Your statement of blaming everyone is unbelievable. There are many members who simply paid for their membership, came out, shot matches and then carried on with their busy lives, how in good conscience can they be blamed for for their membership dues not making it to the APRA? How would they know any different. Some members barely know other members by their first name let alone what is going on beyond that with memberships and APRA politics. This was however a very convenient way to have the entire Service Rifle Club membership banned / locked out of the range. Rather than dealing with the membership problems it was an terrible "Easy Out" to simple kick out all of the club members, regardless of what they knew...or in most cases...didn't know.
Rich
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1.Not blaming membership guy although my understanding from a reliable source is that even the CSRA has no Idea what their membership for the three years was.
2. Yes we know that one of the executive paid out of pocket to have the books done. So where are they? The money that I paid that was supposed to go the APRA did not. I am owed an explanation.
3. Very aware that the group wanted to be adopted by Full bore. They refused to have run downs based on the condition of the range and a flat out rejection by CFO Alberta to allow run downs, something CSRA ignored.
4. Service rifle exec provided the documentation "they had" which wasn't enough. It's absolutely ridiculous for CSRA to ask APRA for a number of their membership. Of course documentation showing where all of the dues collected went to is also mysteriously not available.
Yes we were asked to possibly pay for any shortfall in previous memberships but that never got past the December emergency meeting. Why would I? I paid my dues and apparently received nothing for it.
My statement of blaming everyone is absolutely correct. I've been a member of clubs that meet every month and conduct themselves in a business like manner. This outfit failed to renew with the province, never held annual general meetings and the treasurers report was not audited internally. That's how a three year mess like this is avoided. There was a responsibility to perform duties by the elected executive and the membership. If you are too busy to attend one meeting a year you are too busy to shoot. The reason people did not know what we all know happened is they allowed it to. Stop acting like a child and accept some responsibility.
If you were Full bore or the APRA would you want to let these guys start up again?
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1. Membership numbers were incomplete. CSRA numbers were provided with the best possible information as to what the numbers were, with a pretty good idea. APRA was asked to provide a number if it was different and CSRA would accept whatever number that would be. The APRA should have some numbers on what the various clubs have submitted, even if incomplete. No number was ever provided...maybe the APRA books and money are not in the best of shape either -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------. Maybe the APRA had no clue as to what they were and could not say...that's OK, just let CSRA know, they'll still accept whatever number APRA wants to make up.
2. All information was provided to the APRA, volumes...but nothing was good enough.
3. Wrong. An APRA member accused CSRA of not following DCRA rules and match format. I have shot Service Rifle for over 10 years and been to numerous BCRA Championships and the NSCC Nationals. CSRA had been following DCRA format perfectly. The " "demand" was to follow DCRA rules and Service Conditions format, which was already being done. If I was ever told, which I was not, that run downs needed to be eliminated, I would have gladly done this and modified the match format. "The Group" never asked or wanted to be adopted by Full Bore. I as a single Full Bore member volunteered to get some Service Conditions Matches going but was rejected. It had nothing to do with "The Group" whom ever "The Group" is.
And finally thank you for your demands of the level of commitment that is apparently required of someone who is involved in the shooting sports / pastime, what's next telling me what kind of gun I should own?
Service Rifle Shooting will get going again in Alberta, there are interested shooters in all of the major cities and other rural areas, it just will not be with the APRA unfortunately.
Rich
Rich
2. All information was provided to the APRA, volumes...but nothing was good enough.
3. Wrong. An APRA member accused CSRA of not following DCRA rules and match format. I have shot Service Rifle for over 10 years and been to numerous BCRA Championships and the NSCC Nationals. CSRA had been following DCRA format perfectly. The " "demand" was to follow DCRA rules and Service Conditions format, which was already being done. If I was ever told, which I was not, that run downs needed to be eliminated, I would have gladly done this and modified the match format. "The Group" never asked or wanted to be adopted by Full Bore. I as a single Full Bore member volunteered to get some Service Conditions Matches going but was rejected. It had nothing to do with "The Group" whom ever "The Group" is.
And finally thank you for your demands of the level of commitment that is apparently required of someone who is involved in the shooting sports / pastime, what's next telling me what kind of gun I should own?
Service Rifle Shooting will get going again in Alberta, there are interested shooters in all of the major cities and other rural areas, it just will not be with the APRA unfortunately.
Rich
Rich
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I'm finished biting my lip on this one.
A) the APRA membership books were not properly accounted for (by either the CSRA president or the APRA treasurer), leading presumably, some to possibly believe additional APRA memberships were sold through the CSRA and not accounted for by our membership spreadsheet. That is only a guess though, because the APRA did not share any info in trying to resolve the issue. They treated it as though everyone within the CSRA was guilty of embezzling.
In short, the then serving President admitted wrong doing. So did the APRA Treasurer - but the APRA are fairly tight-lipped over that. Far be it they have the same issues as the CSRA, as that would put serious dents in their credibility over how they dealt with the CSRA issue.
Sounds like a load of house sh!t being fed by the FUDDs in charge that are currently making up the history books within the APRA.
If the APRA TREASURER issued APRA membership booklets to individual disciplines for issuance, the APRA TREASURER was responsible for accounting of those books. In other words, if ---- issued out 8 books to the CSRA, the CSRA was responsible for paying the APRA 80 memberships or returning the un-used portions of books and the remainder in membership dues back to the APRA.
Because our thick President and the APRA treasure BOTH screwed the pooch on this one, we said we would pay the difference.
In other words 'If you think we got 9 books issued to us, we'll pay for 90 members' That wasn't good enough because, presumably, that didn't matter as much as gaining the opportunity to kick us out of the APRA did.
Where the dues went is no mystery - it lined pockets.
I made several, but I refuse to accept blame for theft I took no part in.
Don't accept any responsibility yourself? Were you a member of the CSRA? APRA?
Keep in mind the APRA has had it's own share of internal troubles - pot this is kettle, over.....
I think the bigger question is 'Does anyone within the shooting community that has had dealings with them want to deal with the bullsh!t the Fullbore group has to offer?'
I think the resounding answer to that is 'no'. Out of the people I know and have met that are in the firearms community, by and large both the APRA and the Fullbore Group (now AFRA) are held in negative light. The latest with the CSRA is just a footnote of a long line of grievances people have had with both organizations.
Bottom line: The so-called Alberta Provincial Rifle Association does not well represent the rifle shooters of Alberta. It does not represent the disciplines it purports to, and quite frankly a poor example of a provincial rifle association.
I did memberships for a year and a half - I know both individuals who did them before me and after and the accounting of who was a member within the membership filing was accurate. (Although the APRA later disputed some members who were accounted as 'Lifetime members' - the CSRA did not dispute that) What was in major dispute as far as I understand it was:
A) the APRA membership books were not properly accounted for (by either the CSRA president or the APRA treasurer), leading presumably, some to possibly believe additional APRA memberships were sold through the CSRA and not accounted for by our membership spreadsheet. That is only a guess though, because the APRA did not share any info in trying to resolve the issue. They treated it as though everyone within the CSRA was guilty of embezzling.
If you were a CSRA member and on the mailing list you would have received the explanation and a summary of the 'books'.
In short, the then serving President admitted wrong doing. So did the APRA Treasurer - but the APRA are fairly tight-lipped over that. Far be it they have the same issues as the CSRA, as that would put serious dents in their credibility over how they dealt with the CSRA issue.
I sat on the APRA executive for two years and this is the first I've heard of the CFO for Alberta refusing run-downs.
Sounds like a load of house sh!t being fed by the FUDDs in charge that are currently making up the history books within the APRA.
Um, no it isn't. First off, per APRA BYLAWS, the APRA TREASURER is responsible for issuing memberships and collecting membership dues.
If the APRA TREASURER issued APRA membership booklets to individual disciplines for issuance, the APRA TREASURER was responsible for accounting of those books. In other words, if ---- issued out 8 books to the CSRA, the CSRA was responsible for paying the APRA 80 memberships or returning the un-used portions of books and the remainder in membership dues back to the APRA.
Because our thick President and the APRA treasure BOTH screwed the pooch on this one, we said we would pay the difference.
In other words 'If you think we got 9 books issued to us, we'll pay for 90 members' That wasn't good enough because, presumably, that didn't matter as much as gaining the opportunity to kick us out of the APRA did.
Where the dues went is no mystery - it lined pockets.
Sure -admitted there were huge mistakes that we have gone over time and again. You will not find anyone that is not owning up to the mistakes made.
I made several, but I refuse to accept blame for theft I took no part in.
Don't accept any responsibility yourself? Were you a member of the CSRA? APRA?
Keep in mind the APRA has had it's own share of internal troubles - pot this is kettle, over.....
Very mature. I'd take that sentiment and throw it right back into the face of the APRA board of directors.
Fine, ban the members that you think caused it all. Want to ban me? Fine. I'm ok with never setting foot on the APRA range or attending anything to do with the APRA ever again.
I think the bigger question is 'Does anyone within the shooting community that has had dealings with them want to deal with the bullsh!t the Fullbore group has to offer?'
I think the resounding answer to that is 'no'. Out of the people I know and have met that are in the firearms community, by and large both the APRA and the Fullbore Group (now AFRA) are held in negative light. The latest with the CSRA is just a footnote of a long line of grievances people have had with both organizations.
Bottom line: The so-called Alberta Provincial Rifle Association does not well represent the rifle shooters of Alberta. It does not represent the disciplines it purports to, and quite frankly a poor example of a provincial rifle association.
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I'm going to keep this simple for you guys. Money in - money out = account balance.
Membership could be kept on a simple spreadsheet.
Payment by cheque gives a written record of payments even without a receipt.
It should be very easy to prove that dues have been paid and present an accurate membership list. And as a result of the total lack of commitment whatever went on kept going on for three years. The club ceased to be a club as it was not kept current in the province as well. The executive did not run a club and the membership let it happen.
I really can't believer the excuses I hear for a pathetically run organization. Even worse something isn't right and a bunch of you point at the APRA. And lets say the APRA treasurer did "mess up". Cancelled cheques and bank statements would clear that up but dues were paid to her in cash. Yeah that's it. One of the reasons the APRA won't reinstate the club is the truth isn't being told.
Membership could be kept on a simple spreadsheet.
Payment by cheque gives a written record of payments even without a receipt.
It should be very easy to prove that dues have been paid and present an accurate membership list. And as a result of the total lack of commitment whatever went on kept going on for three years. The club ceased to be a club as it was not kept current in the province as well. The executive did not run a club and the membership let it happen.
I really can't believer the excuses I hear for a pathetically run organization. Even worse something isn't right and a bunch of you point at the APRA. And lets say the APRA treasurer did "mess up". Cancelled cheques and bank statements would clear that up but dues were paid to her in cash. Yeah that's it. One of the reasons the APRA won't reinstate the club is the truth isn't being told.
The APRA uses some public funds and funds from its members to operate the Homestead range as an exclusive club where only those that are in the right clique have unlimited access. The huddled masses of joe blow members are forced to pay their dues (including an extra $100 for new members), these lessor members then must suck up enough that they might someday be given a key to the magical kingdom within the gates for another $100 (Rosebud is the exception to this, once you join you have access when you want it however membership is limited).
I am convinced that one of the main reasons that the inner cabal of the APRA wanted the CSRA gone was that the CSRA would sell a key to any member that wanted it and it pissed the inner cabal off to no end when they were forced to share their range with CSRA members when they wanted it to themselves.
Also they could just be control freaks that like to #### other people around. The range should be available to any member and membership should be available to those that want it (it is on public land and the APRA accepts some public funding). The APRA used to be a fantastic organization but in recent years it has been taken over by those that are out to serve their own interests and not those of the shooting community.
If you are in the APRA and not of the inner circle I recomend that you try to attend some monthly meetings so that you can see what is going on and try help the APRA suport the shooting sports and not hinder them.
I am convinced that one of the main reasons that the inner cabal of the APRA wanted the CSRA gone was that the CSRA would sell a key to any member that wanted it and it pissed the inner cabal off to no end when they were forced to share their range with CSRA members when they wanted it to themselves.
Also they could just be control freaks that like to #### other people around. The range should be available to any member and membership should be available to those that want it (it is on public land and the APRA accepts some public funding). The APRA used to be a fantastic organization but in recent years it has been taken over by those that are out to serve their own interests and not those of the shooting community.
If you are in the APRA and not of the inner circle I recomend that you try to attend some monthly meetings so that you can see what is going on and try help the APRA suport the shooting sports and not hinder them.
I joined Buffalo. Went to the orientation gave them a deposit for an electronic key and I'm in. What was so hard about that? I paid fullbore for a membership and my key is not activated for their club as they require 4 matches before you get access. They don't want 40 guys with SKS rifles there every Saturday preventing them from doing what they do. Long range precision shooting.
If the Fullbore club had an agenda to get rid of CSRA the CSRA did everything to justify it. The executive and membership made it easy.
The CSRA held no meetings kept inadequate records can't account for the funds and yet some of you still criticize others groups for the complete failure of the club. I think you are focusing your hostility in the wrong direction.
If the Fullbore club had an agenda to get rid of CSRA the CSRA did everything to justify it. The executive and membership made it easy.
The CSRA held no meetings kept inadequate records can't account for the funds and yet some of you still criticize others groups for the complete failure of the club. I think you are focusing your hostility in the wrong direction.
