[SFRC] Derya Pump-Action Lineup | DYPA-12 9mm, DYPA-16 9mm & TM22 PA-18 .22 LR | New Stock | TheAmmoSource.com
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I too pre-ordered for the original stock version from SFRC and I just received mine (telescopic stock version). I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, but I can try to provide some information.
Comments here are correct. It does not have a mechanism that locks the pump once it's forward (like a traditional pump shotgun). In fact, you can pull it back anytime, regardless of whether you've fired yet or not (which I guess is kinda nice since it makes it fairly easy to clear the chamber and make it safe). Which probably explains why it doesn't have the latch / button that pump guns have to release and pull back. It is a littttle stiff, but if you run it a bit it gets better. I think part of why it "feels" stiff to rack is because the forend is, IMO, a little on the small side, and it's slobbered in grease / oil so it's slippery. I plan on putting textured MLOK panels on the forend to bulk it up and make it easier to grip onto.
Just from dry cycling dummy rounds, I had no issues with ejection. I mean, it's manual action. I did notice that when you insert the magazine there isn't really a definitive click indicating that the magazine is seated correctly. So you "might" insert the magazine too far or not far enough. I've found it more foolproof to shove the magazine in with the forend pushed forward; that seems to seat the mag in fairly well.
Also - I'm not sure if this will happen to other people, but the red paint on my safety switch wipes off pretty easily
which I thought was pretty funny. I think after my next clean there won't be any red left . Doesn't really bother me since I rarely use safety switches at the range and I make my guns safe by opening the chamber and using chamber flags, and this gun is super easy to rack open.
Love the size though - small, compact, lightweight. I really missed a compact PCC. I've been a little hesitant on the homesteader because of the absurd barrel length and bulkiness.
Thank you Derya for thinking of us Canadians. and thank you SFRC for your excellent service
Comments here are correct. It does not have a mechanism that locks the pump once it's forward (like a traditional pump shotgun). In fact, you can pull it back anytime, regardless of whether you've fired yet or not (which I guess is kinda nice since it makes it fairly easy to clear the chamber and make it safe). Which probably explains why it doesn't have the latch / button that pump guns have to release and pull back. It is a littttle stiff, but if you run it a bit it gets better. I think part of why it "feels" stiff to rack is because the forend is, IMO, a little on the small side, and it's slobbered in grease / oil so it's slippery. I plan on putting textured MLOK panels on the forend to bulk it up and make it easier to grip onto.
Just from dry cycling dummy rounds, I had no issues with ejection. I mean, it's manual action. I did notice that when you insert the magazine there isn't really a definitive click indicating that the magazine is seated correctly. So you "might" insert the magazine too far or not far enough. I've found it more foolproof to shove the magazine in with the forend pushed forward; that seems to seat the mag in fairly well.
Also - I'm not sure if this will happen to other people, but the red paint on my safety switch wipes off pretty easily
which I thought was pretty funny. I think after my next clean there won't be any red left . Doesn't really bother me since I rarely use safety switches at the range and I make my guns safe by opening the chamber and using chamber flags, and this gun is super easy to rack open.Love the size though - small, compact, lightweight. I really missed a compact PCC. I've been a little hesitant on the homesteader because of the absurd barrel length and bulkiness.
Thank you Derya for thinking of us Canadians. and thank you SFRC for your excellent service
Ended up ordering one of these.
So the bolt is held in battery by spring pressure alone, is there any sort of bolt hold open or way to lock it in the rear position to leave the chamber open?
Any chance the people who received there's could give any idea of specs? Not a lot of info on these. Actual weight? Overall Length? Any idea of the buffer tube is a standard size?
So the bolt is held in battery by spring pressure alone, is there any sort of bolt hold open or way to lock it in the rear position to leave the chamber open?
Any chance the people who received there's could give any idea of specs? Not a lot of info on these. Actual weight? Overall Length? Any idea of the buffer tube is a standard size?
Thanks for the feedback!I too pre-ordered for the original stock version from SFRC and I just received mine (telescopic stock version). I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, but I can try to provide some information.
Comments here are correct. It does not have a mechanism that locks the pump once it's forward (like a traditional pump shotgun). In fact, you can pull it back anytime, regardless of whether you've fired yet or not (which I guess is kinda nice since it makes it fairly easy to clear the chamber and make it safe). Which probably explains why it doesn't have the latch / button that pump guns have to release and pull back. It is a littttle stiff, but if you run it a bit it gets better. I think part of why it "feels" stiff to rack is because the forend is, IMO, a little on the small side, and it's slobbered in grease / oil so it's slippery. I plan on putting textured MLOK panels on the forend to bulk it up and make it easier to grip onto.
Just from dry cycling dummy rounds, I had no issues with ejection. I mean, it's manual action. I did notice that when you insert the magazine there isn't really a definitive click indicating that the magazine is seated correctly. So you "might" insert the magazine too far or not far enough. I've found it more foolproof to shove the magazine in with the forend pushed forward; that seems to seat the mag in fairly well.
Also - I'm not sure if this will happen to other people, but the red paint on my safety switch wipes off pretty easily
Love the size though - small, compact, lightweight. I really missed a compact PCC. I've been a little hesitant on the homesteader because of the absurd barrel length and bulkiness.
Thank you Derya for thinking of us Canadians. and thank you SFRC for your excellent service
If SFRC didn't adjust the price it's the first "bait and switch" I can think of where the price was good and in the end the buyer got more then they expected....
Given there is no lock other then spring pressure, I assume the gun action cycles into the closed position easily due to the spring pressure.... I would think once it's broken in and free from storage grease etc it will only need to be pulled back to extract and eject and then the spring pressure should be enough to cycle in the next round and put the bolt into it's closed position ready to fire.
Is there any mlok slots on the bottom of the foreend? From the pictures it didn't look like it, but a small stubby vertical grip would be nice if the foreend has bottom slots and is strong enough.
This gun will likely be similar to the Taipan where the operator needs to keep some forward pressure on the foreend to avoid opening the action unintentionally.
Thanks for this overview.I too pre-ordered for the original stock version from SFRC and I just received mine (telescopic stock version). I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, but I can try to provide some information.
Comments here are correct. It does not have a mechanism that locks the pump once it's forward (like a traditional pump shotgun). In fact, you can pull it back anytime, regardless of whether you've fired yet or not (which I guess is kinda nice since it makes it fairly easy to clear the chamber and make it safe). Which probably explains why it doesn't have the latch / button that pump guns have to release and pull back. It is a littttle stiff, but if you run it a bit it gets better. I think part of why it "feels" stiff to rack is because the forend is, IMO, a little on the small side, and it's slobbered in grease / oil so it's slippery. I plan on putting textured MLOK panels on the forend to bulk it up and make it easier to grip onto.
Just from dry cycling dummy rounds, I had no issues with ejection. I mean, it's manual action. I did notice that when you insert the magazine there isn't really a definitive click indicating that the magazine is seated correctly. So you "might" insert the magazine too far or not far enough. I've found it more foolproof to shove the magazine in with the forend pushed forward; that seems to seat the mag in fairly well.
Also - I'm not sure if this will happen to other people, but the red paint on my safety switch wipes off pretty easily
Love the size though - small, compact, lightweight. I really missed a compact PCC. I've been a little hesitant on the homesteader because of the absurd barrel length and bulkiness.
Thank you Derya for thinking of us Canadians. and thank you SFRC for your excellent service
I posted my thoughts after handling one in-store for about 5 minutes:
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...t-action-9mm-pcc.2560530/page-7#post-21299778
I'm not much of a gun reviewer, so if there's anything you can add to my comments (particularly, what its actually like ro shoot) to help others decide if this is the rifle for them, please share your insights there.
Thanks again!
Ah, I see there's some confusion in this thread regarding how the action operates. As other comments have said, the pump operates freely. There is no spring action and there is no assistance in pulling or releasing the forend. It is literally just push pull on your own, anytime, completely manual. You pull back to release the round, you push forward to strip and chamber the next round. It is not like a spring assisted straight pull.
For those who have handled a Mossberg 590RM, it's basically like that but for 9mm. You insert magazine, you push forward, shoot, pull back to release the case, push forward again to strip and chamber the next round.
There is no MLOK on the bottom side of the forend. But I'm sure if this rifle catches on there will be aftermarket upgrades.
I can provide information on dimensions and weight when I get a chance.
Also - picatinny rail is metal, much appreciated as polymer rails aren't that great for mounting optics.
For those who have handled a Mossberg 590RM, it's basically like that but for 9mm. You insert magazine, you push forward, shoot, pull back to release the case, push forward again to strip and chamber the next round.
There is no MLOK on the bottom side of the forend. But I'm sure if this rifle catches on there will be aftermarket upgrades.
I can provide information on dimensions and weight when I get a chance.
Also - picatinny rail is metal, much appreciated as polymer rails aren't that great for mounting optics.
You're right. My example was only meant to describe the loading and shooting only. I was trying to clarify that you don't let go off the pump forend once you've racked it back and it'll fly forward on its own (comparing it to a spring assisted straight pull).
Mechanically, yes, it is not like the Mossberg 590, where you cannot pull the pump back until trigger is pulled or release lever is depressed. This rifle does NOT lock in its forward position. That's why I mentioned that the Derya operates freely:
It wouldn’t make sense to have only spring tension pop holding the bolt closed, because if that were the case it would be so hard to pump the action that it just wouldn’t be usable and I doubt it would have passed a my a pump action going through the RCMP labs becaiuse it would be just a spring change away from being a semi auto, guess I’ll see when I get mine, I managed to snag the tactical one that I also had no idea existed, I knew about the plain oI’m
I don’t think there’s only spring pressure keeping the bolt closed, if that were the case and it would only be a spring change away from being a semi auto, one thing that just came to mind is that it could be a tilting bolt like on a Savage 99 lever action, could also be a roller locked bolt or a similar type of locking system which would keep the bolt locked until you pull the pump back which will unlock the bolt, I don’t know why that didn’t come to mind before haha! But ya they make a variety of manual action and semi auto firearms, they also make the ZY9 semi auto 9MM PCC which is a blowback AR like PCC that uses Glock mags, so it’s not like they don’t know what they’re doing. Either way I bought the tactical version of the pump action 9MM so I’ll see once I get it.
It must be a tilting bolt like on a Savage 99 rifle as an example, or could be flapper or roller locked which would keep the bolt locked until you pull the pump back which means you don’t need a bolt release button to unlock the bolt because the action of pulling the pump back moves whatever is locking the bolt out of the way allowing you to cycle the pump. On a gas operated semi auto tilting or roller locked bolt it’s the gas piston or direct impingement gases that starts moving the bolt carrier or bolt assembly back for it to unlock then cycle, on a manual action firearm it would be the user pulling the pump back that would unlock it, that’s my guess.
The bolt has to lock in the forward position otherwise the bolt would fly open slamming the back of the receiver if you’re not holding the pump, the reason I think the pump operates freely is because it must be a tilting, flapper/wedge locked or roller locked bolt, just like on a Savage 99 lever action for example which doesn’t unlock until you move the lever to unlock the bolt, so the Derya must unlock when you pull the pump back unlocking the bolt, that would be the most logical explanation.
I came to that conclusion yesterday as well, if it was simple spring pressure the spring would drive the bolt home but people are reporting that the pump is stiff in both directions which tends to suggest some sort of locking lug being released and engaged by the pump action.
By the disassembly diagram (I can't clearly see the parts diagram), there's a recess on the underside of the bolt that is doubtless for a locking wedge, like on a Marlin lever or similar.
That being said I don't like the idea of a pump gun that doesn't have an in battery lock. I certainly would not buy a shotgun, or even a rimfire, that pumps freely in any state - that's pretty basic stuff.
That being said I don't like the idea of a pump gun that doesn't have an in battery lock. I certainly would not buy a shotgun, or even a rimfire, that pumps freely in any state - that's pretty basic stuff.
OK, took it to my outdoor range on Sunday and shot 100 rounds.
The good - reasonably accurate at 20 yards with a red dot I put on it. It does appear to be "not so stiff" after the 100 rounds but still you yank the slide back/forward. There is no spring assist either way.
The bad - so many FTF issues. I only tried the two included magazines and my 115gr (Campro bullet) handloads but the magazine can go in/out about 1/4 inch so if it's not inserted just right the round hits the feed ramp and does not chamber.
As someone else said, it works better if you insert the magazine with the slide forward. With the slide open, the magazine can be inserted too far.
I HAVE NOT TRIED ANY GLOCK BRAND MAGAZINES. I do not own a Glock. A friend will be loaning me some actual Glock magazines to try.
I will also try some factory ammo - maybe my handloads (which work fine in my pistols and previously in my PCCs) have the bullet in too far or out too far? Maybe I need 147gr bullets not 115gr?
The foregrip/slide is small and slippery. Gave myself a good blood blister when my ring finger got pinched between the slide and the action.
The gun is light-weight. I first put an LPVO on it, then a Bushnell 1.5-4.5x32 scope and both made the gun very top-heavy so red dot for me.
Added a loudener to the muzzle just because.
YMMV
The good - reasonably accurate at 20 yards with a red dot I put on it. It does appear to be "not so stiff" after the 100 rounds but still you yank the slide back/forward. There is no spring assist either way.
The bad - so many FTF issues. I only tried the two included magazines and my 115gr (Campro bullet) handloads but the magazine can go in/out about 1/4 inch so if it's not inserted just right the round hits the feed ramp and does not chamber.
As someone else said, it works better if you insert the magazine with the slide forward. With the slide open, the magazine can be inserted too far.
I HAVE NOT TRIED ANY GLOCK BRAND MAGAZINES. I do not own a Glock. A friend will be loaning me some actual Glock magazines to try.
I will also try some factory ammo - maybe my handloads (which work fine in my pistols and previously in my PCCs) have the bullet in too far or out too far? Maybe I need 147gr bullets not 115gr?
The foregrip/slide is small and slippery. Gave myself a good blood blister when my ring finger got pinched between the slide and the action.
The gun is light-weight. I first put an LPVO on it, then a Bushnell 1.5-4.5x32 scope and both made the gun very top-heavy so red dot for me.
Added a loudener to the muzzle just because.
YMMV
cptseawolf
CGN Regular
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Thanks for the first report wasa.
It sounds like the gun has some potential but needs a few design tweeks some minor like a different handguard and some major like solving the magazine over insertion possibility.
Guns with fussy magazine wells and catches that allow the magazine to sit in a position that impedes smooth operation suck.
Hopefully there is an easy fix.
KyleSchenk
CGN Regular
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a 2nd gen release down the road that addresses these deficiencies. Derya seems to listen to constructive criticism and make changes. At least they did with the TM22 platform.
Thank you for the detailed report, much appreciated! The next best thing to original Glock mags are the Magpul Pmags for Glock pistols. They have a reputation of feeding just as reliably and cost a bit less.
As for the insertion issues, the Glock mags have a cutout into which the mag catch protrusion is supposed to "snap in". Hence why you can insert a Glock mag into a Glock pistol with the slide open and never have an issue. The mag makes an audible "click!" when it is fully seated. I would assume that the problem is there : the Derya needs to copy the Glock mag catch in order to be 100% reliable with the bolt open or closed.
With any luck, it is perhaps just a matter of proper fitting (filing or sanding) to make it work more smoothly. It is possible that the mag catch is just poorly cast and doesn't fit into the mag cutout very well. Perhaps the mags' cutouts are not made or positioned properly on the magazines themselves. Or perhaps the mag catch spring is too weak and doesn't engage strong enough...? Impossible to tell without taking the firearm apart and doing an in-depth inspection / function test.
I generally hate buying a project gun right out of the box, but this puppy sure looks like it's worth a bit of tinkering with!
