Sheep Changes Coming

Not so much hunting harder but waiting for rams to leave the parks and mines......that's why late season is so productive. There's not much you can do if the rams are in protected areas no matter how hard you hunt. Non-residents in Alberta are already shut out of the late season so it is a resident thing only other than WMU410...
 
Nice to see the AFGA speak up against the proposed sheep regulation changes:

Following is ESRD's proposal for Trophy Sheep hunting changes

All Trophy Sheep hunting south of the Brazeau River will go to Full Curl (from the 4/5 curl rule now in place)
The 2 zones with a Full Curl restriction now in place (WMU's 302 & 400) will have a shortened season with season closure one week earlier

AFGA's comments: Over the past 5 years or so, I and others have sat in on many sheep meetings. We did discuss whether something should be done, as the total number of wild sheep in Alberta is stable but the trophy quality has been sliding down hill for the past decade or so, and the biologists have concerns that there are less than optimum number of rams on winter ranges. Many suggestions were put forth.
Examples are - Full Curl, shorter seasons, longer wait times between harvesting a Ram, Progressive longer wait times, Age restrictions on sheep, more draws, etc etc and the list goes on. Many of these proposals had both pros and cons. We never did fully agree on what changes should be done or indeed if any were needed. Nobody ever agreed on any one thing and these meetings were attended by many stakeholders among them the Wild Sheep Foundation and APOS to name but a couple. It has kind of sat status quo since mid 2013 and then we got this proposal at the AGMAG with the reasoning that "Our bios feel this is best". With the promise of stakeholder consultation from ESRD, I cannot accept this proposal without more biological and/or statistical information to show that this is the correct way to go.
I feel this could put excess pressure on areas north of the Brazeau, plus many areas south would be virtually shutdown for several years and maybe more as these sheep may never reach full curl. I think we need the proof or at least the logic or reasoning before we could ever support such a proposal. This would put a great deal of hurt on dedicated sheep hunters without any proven advantages.
Therefore AFGA DOES NOT support this proposal.
As always I and your executive are open to your comments and appreciate input.
Doug Butler
AFGA
Click to expand...
 
Sat in on a meeting today where a number of the AGMAG groups were represented, including WSFAB, AFGA and APOS and was very encouraged to see the harmony between the groups on this issue. Looks like we will be getting some expert opinion from a few of the top U.S. sheep bios as well. A united front with some serious scientifiic minds in their corner is going to force ESRD to really produe some convincing arguements for these changes. It's far from over.
 
sheephunter said:
Sat in on a meeting today where a number of the AGMAG groups were represented, including WSFAB, AFGA and APOS and was very encouraged to see the harmony between the groups on this issue. Looks like we will be getting some expert opinion from a few of the top U.S. sheep bios as well. A united front with some serious scientifiic minds in their corner is going to force ESRD to really produe some convincing arguements for these changes. It's far from over.
Click to expand...

http://www.wsfab.org/pdfs/esrd9.pdf

Was any of the above PDF discussed, specifically the "possible solutions"?
 
It was primarily an informational meeting and those "possible solutions" were more just an update of what ideas were floating around and I think the feeling at the meeting was pretty unanimous that everyone wanted to see what ESRD had to say on March 4 before any solutions were even discussed....or even if they were needed. It was nice to see such a diverse group of hunters fairly united on this issue and it was nice to get input from some of the top U.S. sheep bios. They raised some additional questions and perhaps problems that ESRD has never mentioned or perhaps considered. One of them will be attending the March 4 meeting and should bring some excellent perspective to ESRD's presentation. It's funny how little interaction our bios seem to have with other sheep bios in North America. There seems to be a lot of information sharing and cooperation between other jurisdictions.
 
some of those "possible solutions" suck donkey balls imho...

And it seems like most of the options look to limit resident opportunity. What about Non-resident/outfitter restrictions?
 
norskie said:
some of those "possible solutions" suck donkey balls imho...
Click to expand...

I think most of the people at the meeting agreed. Like I said, they were just presented as information of ideas that were circulating, not as a discussion item as to which was most palatable. It was nice to see what people were thinking. I'd never heard of some of the ideas....and yes, some seemed very stupid to me as well. I'd say the feeling at the meeting wasn't how we could stick it to the other guy but rather how we could all work together to find a palatable solution for all.
 
I get that.

But some ideas are more palatable than others. If they show a real need for change that can be defended, then all groups need to give. That includes outfitters and the Non-res groups maybe more so.
 
norskie said:
I get that.

But some ideas are more palatable than others. If they show a real need for change that can be defended, then all groups need to give. That includes outfitters and the Non-res groups maybe more so.
Click to expand...

It includes everyone...absolutely. I didn't hear anything to the contrary at the meeting.
 
patty59 said:
What could APOS possibly give up that would equate to the loss of opportunity to residents that a draw would be?

If a draw were to happen
Click to expand...

A draw is definitely the worst case scenario for residents but I'm unaware of it being on the table. I guess one thing to consider is that if resident harvest is reduced then according to their 20% allotment, outfitter harvest should be too. I know it's something the outfitters are all too well aware of. No doubt there is a fringe element asking for a draw that includes both residents and outfitters and no doubt there is a fringe element looking to stop outfitting. I suspect the solution will not include input from the fringe....
 
I'm not willing to take or even consider anything quite yet. I want to hear what ESRD has to say and more importantly what some of the U.S. bios have to say................then I'll consider solutions that are fair and palatable to all. I suspect there are many options to still retain hunting and harvest opportunity that are yet to be explored and considered. I'm in no hurry to play my cards until ESRD shows their hand. Then we can offer an informed opinion. That's the feeling I got from all of the groups at the meeting to. I feel pretty confident my best interests and those of all Alberta sheep hunters will be well represented at the table. Don't be in a hurry to give anything away because it will be gone forever.
 
sheephunter said:
A draw is definitely the worst case scenario for residents but I'm unaware of it being on the table. I guess one thing to consider is that if resident harvest is reduced then according to their 20% allotment, outfitter harvest should be too. I know it's something the outfitters are all too well aware of. No doubt there is a fringe element asking for a draw that includes both residents and outfitters and no doubt there is a fringe element looking to stop outfitting. I suspect the solution will not include input from the fringe....
Click to expand...

What's on the table then?

If not full curl what's the next option?

We keep hearing that changes will be made and that's been the word for serveral years now, so what are the other possibilities here? What are some of the things that aren't being considered?
 
With full curl I am not giving up anything, actually quite the opposite. More like hedging for the future.

And my guess is the lobbying that is occurring behind the scenes for a draw by a select group (they might be fringe - but they seem to have the ear of the minister) would dovetail well after you shoot down the full curl idea...

I am leaning more towards full curl - would love to be able to keep hunting sheep. The idea of it being a little more difficult to kill a ram is much more palatable than turn it into a once in a lifetime tag.
 
sheephunter said:
A draw is definitely the worst case scenario for residents but I'm unaware of it being on the table. I guess one thing to consider is that if resident harvest is reduced then according to their 20% allotment, outfitter harvest should be too. I know it's something the outfitters are all too well aware of. No doubt there is a fringe element asking for a draw that includes both residents and outfitters and no doubt there is a fringe element looking to stop outfitting. I suspect the solution will not include input from the fringe....
Click to expand...

Funny how a very small group of sheep hunters who get paid to direct non-residents to rams take at a far higher rate than residents, and amount to a very small number of the sheep hunters isn't being lumped in as a fringe group. That says a lot about where we have come, and some of the serious trouble we face.
 
patty59 said:
What's on the table then?

If not full curl what's the next option?

We keep hearing that changes will be made and that's been the word for serveral years now, so what are the other possibilities here? What are some of the things that aren't being considered?
Click to expand...

Status quo at the minute....not enough info from ESRD yet to make an intelligent decision. Kinda pointless trying to fix what what we don't know is broken.
 
norskie said:
Funny how a very small group of sheep hunters who get paid to direct non-residents to rams take at a far higher rate than residents
Click to expand...

Not funny at all...the fact that they are hunting the identical area as the residents with a the best part of the season off limits to them demonstrates just how good and dedicated of hunters they are. 40% success vs 7.5% success....doesn't take a rocket scientist to see who works harder and smarter.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom