For people who are proficient at shooting moving targets: do you shoot by instinct or do you use the mildots (or similar markings for estimating speed) on the reticle? I'm wondering whether it's useful to buy a scope that has speed estimations on them. Thanks!
Shooting moving target: instinct or mildot?
- Thread starter superlative
- Start date
i never heard about using a dot even mil to calculate the advance. you have to learn it and do your way.
you will not have time to do the maths and shoot.
when we were hunting wild boar pushed by dogs depending on the caliber and distance it was between 1/3 to 1/2 of the size of the boar for advance but it came as an instinct like when you are shooting a flying grouse.
refine your skills.
Phil
you will not have time to do the maths and shoot.
when we were hunting wild boar pushed by dogs depending on the caliber and distance it was between 1/3 to 1/2 of the size of the boar for advance but it came as an instinct like when you are shooting a flying grouse.
refine your skills.
Phil
The reason I'm asking is because there was some discussion about this on the optics forum, and someone was explaining how it was done using mildots. His scope actually had the MPH on the horizontal line, so if you remembered roughly how fast certain animals move, you could use the MPH markings.
Would any of you instinctive shooters find that useful? Thanks!
Would any of you instinctive shooters find that useful? Thanks!
Donny Fenn1
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Kootenays
I've used the dots on the Leupold varmint hunter reticle as lead points for moving coyotes, I read somewhere that the first one on either side of the crosshair is around the right distance for a trotting dog (seems to work) and th second one out is a runner, worked twice (only tried twice but could have been flukes too)
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a red dot will help you more but needs a lot of practise.
instinct and technique dont belong together lol ...
For a newbie, what would be the recommendation to get to being able to shoot a moving target the quickest: practice using instinct (eg. participate more in trap shooting), or learn the technique using mildots? The problem with learning the technique is that it's significantly more expensive, since every scope of every rifle would need to have high end scopes; whereas instinct requires you only to practice more shooting which is more fun.
Superlative,
yes trap shooting will open your eyes and body on that.
trying to shoot grouse when they re flying too.
we used a running boar target at 50m to check the balance but honestly i do not think about the mildots training.
for my sniper training we never had the running side for shooting, but honestly with a good training from hunting and shooting that shouldnt be a big problem ...
more than a mildot system i will recommend a red point or system like a docter ...
but pratice pratice and practice ...
yes trap shooting will open your eyes and body on that.
trying to shoot grouse when they re flying too.
we used a running boar target at 50m to check the balance but honestly i do not think about the mildots training.
for my sniper training we never had the running side for shooting, but honestly with a good training from hunting and shooting that shouldnt be a big problem ...
more than a mildot system i will recommend a red point or system like a docter ...
but pratice pratice and practice ...
If you know the speed of the target, you can relate mildots to lead. Since lead is angle.
From my blog:
ht tp://www.gun-blog.com/2013/03/lead-for-hunting-in-mil-dots.html
[h=3]Lead for hunting, in Mil dots[/h]
With no air resistance*, lead is always the same number of scope clicks for a given target speed and muzzle velocity, regardless of range. (If there were no air the deer would be too out of breath to run at all, I know).
With air resistance, lead is almost the same number of scope clicks for a given target speed and muzzle velocity, out to 100 yards.
The out to 100 yards limitation is OK, because it is really hard to hit moving targets outside 100 yards without a machine gun and tracer.
In the time it takes the bullet to get there:
At 2,600fps, a target moving at 10 mph 100 yards away moves 21.6 inches, 20.6 moa.
At 2,600fps, a target moving at 10 mph 50 yards away moves 10.5 inches, 20.0 moa.
At 2,600fps, a target moving at 10 mph 25 yards away moves 5.2 inches, 19.7 moa.
So, your typical deer rifle needs 20 moa lead per 10 mph. That's 6 mil per 10 mph. And range doesn't change the number of mils much, at least out to 100 yards.
If you have a mildot scope you can lead by 6 dots (you probably only have 5, so use your imagination). That is a lot, which is why it is hard to hit something running really fast across your horizon.
Something walking at 3.5 mph would be 2 mil at 2,600fps, that might be useful information.
Target moving at 10 MPH, out to 100 yards:
At half the speed, half the number of Mils. At twice the speed, twice the number of Mils.
From my blog:
ht tp://www.gun-blog.com/2013/03/lead-for-hunting-in-mil-dots.html
[h=3]Lead for hunting, in Mil dots[/h]
With no air resistance*, lead is always the same number of scope clicks for a given target speed and muzzle velocity, regardless of range. (If there were no air the deer would be too out of breath to run at all, I know).
With air resistance, lead is almost the same number of scope clicks for a given target speed and muzzle velocity, out to 100 yards.
The out to 100 yards limitation is OK, because it is really hard to hit moving targets outside 100 yards without a machine gun and tracer.
In the time it takes the bullet to get there:
At 2,600fps, a target moving at 10 mph 100 yards away moves 21.6 inches, 20.6 moa.
At 2,600fps, a target moving at 10 mph 50 yards away moves 10.5 inches, 20.0 moa.
At 2,600fps, a target moving at 10 mph 25 yards away moves 5.2 inches, 19.7 moa.
So, your typical deer rifle needs 20 moa lead per 10 mph. That's 6 mil per 10 mph. And range doesn't change the number of mils much, at least out to 100 yards.
If you have a mildot scope you can lead by 6 dots (you probably only have 5, so use your imagination). That is a lot, which is why it is hard to hit something running really fast across your horizon.
Something walking at 3.5 mph would be 2 mil at 2,600fps, that might be useful information.
Target moving at 10 MPH, out to 100 yards:
| Velocity, fps | Mil |
| 2400 | 6.5 |
| 2600 | 6 |
| 2800 | 5.5 |
| 3000 | 5 |
At half the speed, half the number of Mils. At twice the speed, twice the number of Mils.
9.3mauser,
we were using exactly the same target ... depending on the caliber and of course the running speed you had to adjust the advance.
as a tip when you follow the boar and are in front of him, you should follow and go two times faster than him and when you have the advance on him you should release the trigger but continuing the movement of course ...
we were using exactly the same target ... depending on the caliber and of course the running speed you had to adjust the advance.
as a tip when you follow the boar and are in front of him, you should follow and go two times faster than him and when you have the advance on him you should release the trigger but continuing the movement of course ...
I've always used instinctive. The amount of apparent lead varies with the speed at which your are moving your muzzle. If your muzzle is stationary you need a lot more lead then if you are moving it a the same speed was your target The ideal is to come from behind and swing past the target. I've found that usually just as you pass where you want to hit you squeeze the trigger. This depends a lot on how fast you are swinging through.
In other words it requires a lot of practice.
In other words it requires a lot of practice.
^^^ Like he said.
In the ORA we shoot several events at moving targets. At walking speed, 100 yards is about 3 inches. 200 about 10 inches, 300 about 15 inches and 400 about 20 inches.
I have also tried it with running targets. The lead required was substantial.
In the ORA we shoot several events at moving targets. At walking speed, 100 yards is about 3 inches. 200 about 10 inches, 300 about 15 inches and 400 about 20 inches.
I have also tried it with running targets. The lead required was substantial.
Lots of practice, and yrs of trial and error.. Hunted deer with hounds my whole life.. Most deer are taken under 50yds where lead isn't a huge but still a bit of a factor.. At this yardage a red dot, or peep site are hard to beat.. I find timing is the biggest obstacle when shooting running game moving through timber.. This is by far the most difficult aspect, and I have seen more trees with bullet holes than I have deer... This just takes time IMO...
In the open area is much easier, you just have yardage and lead to calculate.. Here is where I prefer a faster cartridge (25-06, or 280), making lead a little less of a factor. A low powered scope is my favorite and prefer a Leupold VX3 1.75-6 with heavy duplex to get on target as fast as possible. Training yourself to shoot both eyes open is a must!
In the open area is much easier, you just have yardage and lead to calculate.. Here is where I prefer a faster cartridge (25-06, or 280), making lead a little less of a factor. A low powered scope is my favorite and prefer a Leupold VX3 1.75-6 with heavy duplex to get on target as fast as possible. Training yourself to shoot both eyes open is a must!
I learned on jackrabbits east of Calgary, practice......practice........practice...........Lots of shooting and our rules were no standing bunnies and must be about 100 mtrs or further and running..............I burned out a 243 doing this in about 4 years.........somewhere around 15,000 rounds. That Rem 700 with a 3-9 Weaver on it became almost a part of my body........no substitute for practice, training won't do it for you, sorry, just practice......practice.......practice........
In doing this I also leaned that I don't like clutter in my scope......just a set of duplex crosshairs and a rifle sighted for 250-300 mtrs depending on cartridge and trajectory.........everything else is just distracting clutter and doesn't help at all if you know your chosen cartridge intimately..........I have taken game cleanly out to about 600 mtrs without ever tweaking a knob or using a stadia wire or multiple dots.........just a duplex crosshair and intimate knowledge of my rifle and cartridge.
In doing this I also leaned that I don't like clutter in my scope......just a set of duplex crosshairs and a rifle sighted for 250-300 mtrs depending on cartridge and trajectory.........everything else is just distracting clutter and doesn't help at all if you know your chosen cartridge intimately..........I have taken game cleanly out to about 600 mtrs without ever tweaking a knob or using a stadia wire or multiple dots.........just a duplex crosshair and intimate knowledge of my rifle and cartridge.
