Short range thumper suggestions.

[Rman]

A red recoil pad may be good for an extry 50 fps?
On a side note, RL17 is an amazing performer, and should get you to the promised land of 3000fps... recoil pad or not.

R.

 

[Boomer686]

The issue is she's not interested in Bear as table fare. I'll keep 'working' at it.

Understandable. It is an acquired taste.

 

[hoytcanon]

Understandable. It is an acquired taste.

I don't agree with that perspective. For 20 years we hosted a family wild game BBQ... with none of the dishes being labelled... the blind testing showed that most people preferred the bear dishes over deer and even moose. For the most part, it is the "thought" of bear meat that taints perceptions.

 

[medvedqc]

I don't agree with that perspective. For 20 years we hosted a family wild game BBQ... with none of the dishes being labelled... the blind testing showed that most people preferred the bear dishes over deer and even moose. For the most part, it is the "thought" of bear meat that taints perceptions.

indeed same experiences as yours ...

 

[m1978]

444 marlin, nice power without undue recoil. very effective and once again in production.

 

[Rifleman87]

I like cartridge flexibility. I say any caliber that offers a light (ish) varmint bullets, high bc pointy ones and some good ol flat based round nose heavy slugs is a good caliber. To my knowledge that puts 6.5mm and 30 cal at the top of my list. Now, handling, I like a short overall length for dense woods hunting, nothing much over 38 inches, the shorter the better. To me, that usually limits me to short action. So, 308, 260 rem, 6.5cm, those can work. I really like the ruger American compact (minus the short LOP) in 308 or perhaps the predator in 308, there’s also the ranch (way to crank out the short barrelled 308’s ruger!). I don’t own any one of those, but I would consider one for a short range thumper. A 308 slinging a 180 grain round nose ought to lay a bit of thump on whatever it hits.

I know I know, then there’s the big bore REAL thumpers, I’m just thinking outside the box a little and a little bit about cartridge flexibility.

Hope you find something that works for you

 

[Johnn Peterson]

indeed same experiences as yours ...

Positive comments on Bear, like yours and those of hoytcanon, I've often used to attempt to convince my good lady to 'try' it. I had planned on using my '.366 Wagner' short range thumper on spring Black Bear here on the island IF my convincing efforts proved successful. Results to date, no go. I'll keep the pressure up but I think my odds in Lotto 649 are a better bet.

 

[Johnn Peterson]

444 marlin, nice power without undue recoil. very effective and once again in production.

I've had one for years and I don't see any sign of it leaving my little 'Hareme' any time soon. It's proven itself on numerous occasions, usually in closer range conditions and with handloads using Hornady 265gr FP Interlock bullets. On the last few Moose trips, it's 'role' has been as a spare rifle but I'd have no hesitation as taking it as the primary.

 

[saskcop]

I have rolled a pile of moose with the .444 marlin and 300 grain Speer SP's. Furthest at almost 200 paces. It is a thumper.

 

[Johnn Peterson]

I have rolled a pile of moose with the .444 marlin and 300 grain Speer SP's. Furthest at almost 200 paces. It is a thumper.

On my 444S I posted about earlier, I have a low power Bushnell variable I mounted using a set of Weaver pivot mounts. I know there are people that have had 'issues' with that mount method. I've found as long as the surfaces are clean when the scope is pivoted back into position, no problems. I have that same mount on two other rifles, issue free.
Not long ago, I added another member to my small family of short range thumpers. A Marlin 1895GBL. Now, to get it some field experience.

 

[Why not?]

Yikes! That is a bruiser... I have never seen that cartridge, Ted, but over 6K ft/lb energy can do an awful lot.

Edit; a thought just occured to me; I recalled a P.O Ackley quote from a letter he wrote to Bevan King and I am wondering if he was referencing this cartridge?

P.O Ackley to Bevan King;

"If you look through my Volume I book you will find that about 2,800 fps is about all anyone has been able to get out of a .35 caliber 250-grain bullet, regardless of what case is used. So anyone claiming 3,400 is either using some highly specialized system or he is a liar. And I am pretty much of the opinion that the latter is correct.”

Most likely it was that cartridge. Bevan built several of them, and the rifle I had was on a Pattern 17 Enfield in a gorgeous piece of Bastogne walnut.

The velocities were read on my Oehler 33, which I still have, so were accurate. It was easy to win coffee bets with guys at the range who couldn't believe the velocity when we told them.

Sold it to a friend of mine here in Whitehorse. He still has it.

Ted

 

[Why not?]

I don't agree with that perspective. For 20 years we hosted a family wild game BBQ... with none of the dishes being labelled... the blind testing showed that most people preferred the bear dishes over deer and even moose. For the most part, it is the "thought" of bear meat that taints perceptions.

indeed same experiences as yours ...

Positive comments on Bear, like yours and those of hoytcanon, I've often used to attempt to convince my good lady to 'try' it. I had planned on using my '.366 Wagner' short range thumper on spring Black Bear here on the island IF my convincing efforts proved successful. Results to date, no go. I'll keep the pressure up but I think my odds in Lotto 649 are a better bet.

Johnn, we have discussed this a few times.

I need to bring you some of Phil and Emma's bear bourguignon. C'est magnifique!

Ted

 

[Ardent]

I like cartridge flexibility. I say any caliber that offers a light (ish) varmint bullets, high bc pointy ones and some good ol flat based round nose heavy slugs is a good caliber. To my knowledge that puts 6.5mm and 30 cal at the top of my list. Now, handling, I like a short overall length for dense woods hunting, nothing much over 38 inches, the shorter the better. To me, that usually limits me to short action. So, 308, 260 rem, 6.5cm, those can work. I really like the ruger American compact (minus the short LOP) in 308 or perhaps the predator in 308, there’s also the ranch (way to crank out the short barrelled 308’s ruger!). I don’t own any one of those, but I would consider one for a short range thumper. A 308 slinging a 180 grain round nose ought to lay a bit of thump on whatever it hits.

I know I know, then there’s the big bore REAL thumpers, I’m just thinking outside the box a little and a little bit about cartridge flexibility.

Hope you find something that works for you

You have a point, there’s an assumption bullet weight means harder hits, I’ve found in my experiences to date that’s not really accurate. What matters is penetration and speed, the holy grail is both and big bullets moving fast enough achieve that with a caveat; recoil.

The slow and heavies (.45-70, .458 Win in 500gr loadings, many of the Nitro Expresses) don’t quite generate the velocity required for radiating tissue damage form the bullet impact (2,200fps at impact). So the little .308 will often be more dramatic in effect, as it does. But push that 250-500gr at 2,400fps and up to reliably arrive at the animal at 2,200, and it’s a game changer. Like a giant .308.

The part of your post I like is folks focus too much on bullet weight, when to be a true “thumper” you need enough speed too.

 

[Johnn Peterson]

Johnn, we have discussed this a few times.

I need to bring you some of Phil and Emma's bear bourguignon. C'est magnifique!

Ted

Hi Ted;
You convinced me some time back. I just showed my Lady all the details and quotes of/in your last post. Her response could be best described as a shudder. HOWEVER, a challenge. On one of your next visits to the area, using your skills of persuasion....................................

 

[chuck nelson]

You have a point, there’s an assumption bullet weight means harder hits, I’ve found in my experiences to date that’s not really accurate. What matters is penetration and speed, the holy grail is both and big bullets moving fast enough achieve that with a caveat; recoil.

The slow and heavies (.45-70, .458 Win in 500gr loadings, many of the Nitro Expresses) don’t quite generate the velocity required for radiating tissue damage form the bullet impact (2,200fps at impact). So the little .308 will often be more dramatic in effect, as it does. But push that 250-500gr at 2,400fps and up to reliably arrive at the animal at 2,200, and it’s a game changer. Like a giant .308.

The part of your post I like is folks focus too much on bullet weight, when to be a true “thumper” you need enough speed too.

My long time hunting buddy and I were chatting on the phone last night about this very thing. Proximity, of course, increases impact velocity, and it is noticeable.

 

[SuperCub]

Hi Ted;
You convinced me some time back. I just showed my Lady all the details and quotes of/in your last post. Her response could be best described as a shudder. HOWEVER, a challenge. On one of your next visits to the area, using your skills of persuasion....................................

Ted could sell snow cones to Northern Indigenous First Nations Canadians. Your campaign is in good hands.

 

[Rifleman87]

You have a point, there’s an assumption bullet weight means harder hits, I’ve found in my experiences to date that’s not really accurate. What matters is penetration and speed, the holy grail is both and big bullets moving fast enough achieve that with a caveat; recoil.

The slow and heavies (.45-70, .458 Win in 500gr loadings, many of the Nitro Expresses) don’t quite generate the velocity required for radiating tissue damage form the bullet impact (2,200fps at impact). So the little .308 will often be more dramatic in effect, as it does. But push that 250-500gr at 2,400fps and up to reliably arrive at the animal at 2,200, and it’s a game changer. Like a giant .308.

The part of your post I like is folks focus too much on bullet weight, when to be a true “thumper” you need enough speed too.

Ardent, thank you for the positive comment. Also, I could not agree more, bullet structural design, it’s optimal velocity range and hitting your game in that window (in the right spot!) is what puts game down. On the topic of the “giant 308” (I like that!) it is important to match your cartridge to your game as well.

 

[dak47]

I love the short thumper bush rifle, filled that niche in the safe a little more than I actually have time for but that is changing. 2 - 45/70's and the takedown is a .450 Marlin that I broke down and got 400 brass for in case Hornady calls it quits on rolling them.....

 

[Johnn Peterson]

Ted could sell snow cones to Northern Indigenous First Nations Canadians. Your campaign is in good hands.

Then let the 'games' begin . I'll keep you updated on the efforts and results. Oh, point of interest. The present background picture on my computer is of a couple of gentlemen from this site, on a Caribou hunt .

 

[medvedqc]

Ted could sell snow cones to Northern Indigenous First Nations Canadians. Your campaign is in good hands.

wait when he will tell you the story of bear chili while ice fishing ...