Shortage of Lowers in Canada
- Thread starter Westicle
- Start date
There's no shortage of lowers. What there IS is a shortage of inexpensive lowers.
A year ago you could chose between:
-DPMS ($220)
-Stag ($210)
-Eagle Arms ($235)
-Dlask ($300)
Now the only steady supply of lowers is from Dlask because of export restrictions and heavy paperwork on the USA side. Luckily the price has dropped to $250 so it's not that big a price difference anymore to buy Canadian.
A year ago you could chose between:
-DPMS ($220)
-Stag ($210)
-Eagle Arms ($235)
-Dlask ($300)
Now the only steady supply of lowers is from Dlask because of export restrictions and heavy paperwork on the USA side. Luckily the price has dropped to $250 so it's not that big a price difference anymore to buy Canadian.
P0WERWAGON
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- burnaby BC كافر
i just wan tto know why a stag lower is $69 in the states and they are $200 here
dangertree
Business Rep
- Location
- NL/ON/FL/PL
P0WERWAGON said:
Actually, they're $215 here. They are not $69US in the States. Stag USA sells them for $110, about $130CDN.
We import and distribute Stag Arms products in Canada.
Because you ask, and it's our parts, I'll explain.
US dealers:
-Pay lower prices to start with.
-Don't pay for State Dept export licenses, and the salary of the person working on it.
-Don't pay for secure shipping to a border.
-Don't pay brokerage fees.
-Don't have to deal with GST, etc (they do State taxes, which are easier and less-time consuming than the GST).
-Don't have to verify/register lowers.
-Don't spend their time making all that happen.
-Have lower cost/regulations in actually running a firearms business.
-Have a much, much, much, much larger customer pool and the economies of scale that go with that.
And that is why a lower costs more in Canada than in the USA. Glad I could clear that up for you.
Best regards,
DT
dangertree said:
x2
Everything DT said plus one he forgot to mention...
In the US Firearms Dealers don't pay anything for their FFL (Federal Firearms License)... in Canada dealers can pay up to $950.00 for their Business Firearms License.
Questar said:
That's not correct. FFL fees in the US have gone up in recent years. Average is about $1800 US for an FFL1 now. I think the FFL-3 is either free of very low cost, but it only applies to C&R milsurp rifles, not new AR's.
And in any event, all this is moot because:
a) There are lots of AR lower dealers in Canada who will tell you they are 2 weeks away from having inventory (perpetually it seems) in the hopes you will leave a downpayment. In reality, in today's climate it will take upwards of 6 months or more to get a lower into the country from time of order to the time of consumer sale in Canada.
b) When a dealer DOES get US lowers in stock, they are usually all sold before the first one gets here.
All this to say, either be ready for a long wait or maybe try Dlask out. I recently used a lower of there's for an M4gery build and am mostly pleased. What I don't like is somewhat sloppy machining on the front of the magwell and they seem to be touchy in the fit of the rear takedown pin. I had to try three different detent pins before I found one that grabbed reliably. I think the US lowers have the pin recessed a little deeper.
Other than that, using a cheap DPMS LPK, everything went together like lego and Dlask always has lowers ready to ship.
Well after strating this thread I just got off the phone with Chris from P&D and ordered a Bushmaster complete lower with A2 Stock (all I can afford right now) price was just under $600 gross..... still have to add taxes and shipping on it.
there is a shortage of used lowers in canada right now..... I am putting a factory armailte AR15a3T upper on it with the 16" free floated barrel so would have rather had armalite but john seems to be running short supply lately, bushmaster will maintain the value better.
Stag will be the next lower I buy.... good value and walt has stock in hand.
there is a shortage of used lowers in canada right now..... I am putting a factory armailte AR15a3T upper on it with the 16" free floated barrel so would have rather had armalite but john seems to be running short supply lately, bushmaster will maintain the value better.
Stag will be the next lower I buy.... good value and walt has stock in hand.
Last edited:
dangertree
Business Rep
- Location
- NL/ON/FL/PL
Thanks for the kind words Wes.
FYI all, in the future Stag Arms will only be available through your local retailer.
Arms East will be handling the distribution, promotion, and servicing side of things.
I'll always be available to answer questions though.
Cheers,
DT
FYI all, in the future Stag Arms will only be available through your local retailer.
Arms East will be handling the distribution, promotion, and servicing side of things.
I'll always be available to answer questions though.
Cheers,
DT
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
Manufacturers in the US have to pay 10% Federal Excise Tax though. If they export to Canada they can claim the FET back.
Claven2 said:
Claven... I beg to differ on two points.
First, my US partner has an FFL (selling everything except Class III NFA firearms) and he pays nothing for that license... it's FREE.
Second, it does not take upwards of 6 months to get a lower into the country... in fact some members of Gunnutz know that we got their export permits approved in less than 6 weeks (AR Lowers).
I'll make you an offer... if we can't import a lower for you in under 16 weeks (start to finish) I'll give it to you for free... not just the import service fees... the lower and everything.
Bushmaster BMLOW9349102 LOWER (Stripped)... $299.00 Canadian
Bushmaster BMALOWTELEP LOWER W/M4 6 POSITION STK... $499.00 Canadian
On top of all the other arguments, try this on for size.
Let's imagine you are a store front gun shop. Unless you daddy is a Bronfmann, you don't have an infinite budget for inventory. High turn over items can be stocked at a moderate mark up, while shelf sitters will need a fairly high return to warrent the tying up of your limited capitol.
If you do a good business, with lots of walk in trade and an internet presence, you could likely have several customers looking for a stripped lower in a given month.
So what do you do? Minimize your costs by ordering in 50 at a time, hoping they will sell out in under six months and that your timing to re-order is perfect so you don't loose business due to no inventory?
Do you place 4 periodic orders through the year for fewer units, lower mark-up, but quicker capital return time?
All the while do you sit back and watch your other store front competitors match or better your pricing, and watch the guys who ##### about your mark up and import direct? (Of course next week the complaint will be the lack of storefronts with stock)
Given the hassles involved, I think I'd rather take the money and sell dope. The profits are higher and you can just cap the competition.
Let's imagine you are a store front gun shop. Unless you daddy is a Bronfmann, you don't have an infinite budget for inventory. High turn over items can be stocked at a moderate mark up, while shelf sitters will need a fairly high return to warrent the tying up of your limited capitol.
If you do a good business, with lots of walk in trade and an internet presence, you could likely have several customers looking for a stripped lower in a given month.
So what do you do? Minimize your costs by ordering in 50 at a time, hoping they will sell out in under six months and that your timing to re-order is perfect so you don't loose business due to no inventory?
Do you place 4 periodic orders through the year for fewer units, lower mark-up, but quicker capital return time?
All the while do you sit back and watch your other store front competitors match or better your pricing, and watch the guys who ##### about your mark up and import direct? (Of course next week the complaint will be the lack of storefronts with stock)
Given the hassles involved, I think I'd rather take the money and sell dope. The profits are higher and you can just cap the competition.
KevinB said:
I stand corrected... he told me it cost him nothing... I took him literally.
Of course $90 for three years is a far cry from the $950.00 I pay, but then I guess we should be happy... it used to be $950.00 per year... they just changed it to $950.00 for 3 years.
Well I got the 1800 figure froma dealer in the US. Perhaps he was mistaken or it includes something other than just his FFL fee???
Anyhow, I'm surprised there are Bushy lowers available at all in Cnada right now.
Are there any Stag lowers in Canada ready to ship as I type this?
about 6 weeks ago when I was looking for a lower, I phoned all the usual suspects (TSE, Epps, Wolverine, etc.) and got the same story everywhere - "at least 2 more weeks, probably longer till we get stock.
Ah well, no biggie really as the Dlask was only $30 or so more and it's working out fine for me
Anyhow, I'm surprised there are Bushy lowers available at all in Cnada right now.
Are there any Stag lowers in Canada ready to ship as I type this?
about 6 weeks ago when I was looking for a lower, I phoned all the usual suspects (TSE, Epps, Wolverine, etc.) and got the same story everywhere - "at least 2 more weeks, probably longer till we get stock.
Ah well, no biggie really as the Dlask was only $30 or so more and it's working out fine for me
Claven2 said:Well I got the 1800 figure froma dealer in the US. Perhaps he was mistaken or it includes something other than just his FFL fee???
Anyhow, I'm surprised there are Bushy lowers available at all in Cnada right now.
Are there any Stag lowers in Canada ready to ship as I type this?
about 6 weeks ago when I was looking for a lower, I phoned all the usual suspects (TSE, Epps, Wolverine, etc.) and got the same story everywhere - "at least 2 more weeks, probably longer till we get stock.
Ah well, no biggie really as the Dlask was only $30 or so more and it's working out fine for me
Don't concider this gospel, but I seem to recall that FFL's with a C2 manufaturing endorsement also has to cough up about $1800 per year to the State Department to register as an ITAR business. A lot #####ed because they have no interest in exporting, but the fee isn't optional for the machine gun and suppressor manufacturers.
C2 Manufacturers:
He must be licensed under the GCA and pay the required special (occupational) tax imposed by the NFA. In addition, an importer (except importers of sporting shotguns and shotgun ammunition) must also be registered with ATF under the Arms Export Control Act of 1976.
After becoming licensed under the GCA, he must take the following steps: ATF Form 5630.7 with the appropriate tax payment in the entire amount must be filed with ATF in accordance with instructions on the form.
If you have any questions, call the National Firearm Act Branch at (202) 927-8330.
[26 U.S.C. 5801, 18 U.S.C. 923, 27 CFR 47.31, 178.41, 179.34 and 179.193]
and exports
The GCA does not provide for an export license. However, firearms and ammunition shall be exported in accordance with provisions of the Arms Export Control Act of 1976 and a license must be obtained from the Office of Defense Trade Controls, PM/DTC, SA-6, Room 228, U.S. Department of State, Washington, DC 20522; (703) 875-6644. In the case of exporting NFA firearms, a permit, ATF Form 9, must be obtained from ATF. The export of sporting shotguns is regulated by the U.S. Department of Commerce. For further information, contact them at their nearest district office or the Exporter Counseling Division, U.S. Department of Commerce, Washington, DC 20230, (202) 482-4811
[22 U.S.C. 2778, 27 CFR 179.114 - 179.116]
C2 and DD manufacturers pay a lot more for what they do -- however that cost is not releavant to the export of goods to Canada.
He must be licensed under the GCA and pay the required special (occupational) tax imposed by the NFA. In addition, an importer (except importers of sporting shotguns and shotgun ammunition) must also be registered with ATF under the Arms Export Control Act of 1976.
After becoming licensed under the GCA, he must take the following steps: ATF Form 5630.7 with the appropriate tax payment in the entire amount must be filed with ATF in accordance with instructions on the form.
If you have any questions, call the National Firearm Act Branch at (202) 927-8330.
[26 U.S.C. 5801, 18 U.S.C. 923, 27 CFR 47.31, 178.41, 179.34 and 179.193]
and exports
The GCA does not provide for an export license. However, firearms and ammunition shall be exported in accordance with provisions of the Arms Export Control Act of 1976 and a license must be obtained from the Office of Defense Trade Controls, PM/DTC, SA-6, Room 228, U.S. Department of State, Washington, DC 20522; (703) 875-6644. In the case of exporting NFA firearms, a permit, ATF Form 9, must be obtained from ATF. The export of sporting shotguns is regulated by the U.S. Department of Commerce. For further information, contact them at their nearest district office or the Exporter Counseling Division, U.S. Department of Commerce, Washington, DC 20230, (202) 482-4811
[22 U.S.C. 2778, 27 CFR 179.114 - 179.116]
C2 and DD manufacturers pay a lot more for what they do -- however that cost is not releavant to the export of goods to Canada.
thats why I ordered from P&D... good service and they are one of the few people that reply before lunch to emails. chris is aweome.
walt has lowers in stock at stag arms..... http://www.armseast.com/
they are way cheaper then the bushy ones and the same mil-spec quality..... dlask will never be able to say they are milspec quality, at least the ones I have seen. pins loose and other problems. ( I like dlask but there quality is hit or miss)
