Shotgun Fitting - Ontario

Lotro

Lotro

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Kitchener, ON
I see a lot of people on this site, and in my local community of shooters proclaim the importance of buying a shotgun that fits. Every experienced shooter that I've met says that more importantly than brand, or shiny finishes is whether or not the gun fits you. When I ask this same group of people how to tell if a shotgun fits, they all shrug and say something along the lines of when you shoulder it, it just feels good.

Unfortunately, as a really inexperienced shooter, this isn't super helpful.

I've done a little bit of googling on shotgun fit, but I have yet to find a place that lets you try before you buy, and yes used from my local gun club might work, but it's hard to start searching when you don't know what you're looking for. With that in mind, does anyone know of a place in Ontario where you can get fitted for a shot gun? Preferably at or near a range?

Thanks!
 
Just my opinion. If you are new to wing shooting, you will need to get one of those experienced shooters you have spoken with to help you. Or you may get lucky and find someone competent at the gun counter. You should decide what kind of gun you want and what type of shooting, then focus on those models. With someone knowledgeable helping you, determine which one fits you best. Some guns come with shims, spacers and adjustable combs that can be used to help with fit. Once you have become fairly comfortable with shooting and mounting your gun, you can decide if getting a fitted gun is what you want. It is an expensive process and you will want to be sure you feel it is worth it before you spend the money.

Bottom line, it sounds like you need help from someone, and only so much can be done online. Almost every club has a few really good and knowledgeable shooters, find one at your local club. If you get it right the first time, you can save a lot of money and time becoming a good wing-shooter.
 
Your best way to start might be to go to a trap range and make some friends (easy) and explain what you are tring to do and need some help with basic fit, all guns fit differently. My bet is that you will get some pointers and an offer to try out several different guns. The problem with this approach is that as a novice you have no reference standard as to what good fit would be for you. One way to start is to buy any good used gun that seems to line up comfortably for you and practice lots with it. After 1000 rounds or more you will have a much clearer idea of what you need for maximum enjoyment of the type of shooting you want to do.
You can try shouldering many different guns in a store and for a quick and dirty basic fit, if it feels comfortable when you shoulder it and swing it you are on the right track. Remember, on a shotgun your eye takes the job of rear sight so when solidly cheecked and pointing at something specific your eye should be looking straight down the centre of the top rib or barrel. Look at the represented target point, close your eyes, raise the gun to your shoulder while blindly pointing at the target point, then open your eyes and see if you are pointing at or near the target. Do this ten times, you may need to change your footing and body angle to line up right/left. If the gun is a reasonable fit you should be looking straight down the rib or barrel at or close to the target most of the time. Try this with several different guns, see which seems more natural for you. And as already mentioned, some newer guns have stocks that are adjustable in varying degrees that will allow a custom fit for almost anyone. You may not get a perfect fit on your first gun, but as a beginner you can get a good fit that will make it easy to progress.
 
Make friends at the clay range- will get a chance to try lots of different fits.

Simple advice though- get an adjustable comb and you will likely be able to fit it unless you have odd dimensions. For buying in person use the "mount the gun with my eyes closed" trick until it feels "right" then open your eyes and see where you are looking.

If the gun fits you will be looking right down the barrel with the beads/whatever stacked. If it doesn't fit you will be looking off the side or low/high down the barrel. If your eyes are open you will cheat the fit. This process will get you "in the righ area" for fit.

Fit isn't as important at the beginning until you can get better at pointing. A bit like golf- a beginner can't take advantage of a custom set of clubs, and will likely evolve the fit/technique as you practice. Agree with above- buy something that "mostly works", shoot a few thousand targets and then worry about finding " the one" as you will have a much better idea of what works for you.
 
There are many good videos on gun fit on the net search them out and learn what the basic fit is and how you determine what is needed for you Also many sites where people have no idea what they are talking about
 
struff55 said:
There are many good videos on gun fit on the net search them out and learn what the basic fit is and how you determine what is needed for you Also many sites where people have no idea what they are talking about
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This X2
I would add you may want to be explicit having a trap shooter fit you. Real trap guns fit different and shoot high and they may make you hold the gun to shoot rising targets. This doesn’t necessarily help you in the field.
 
Thanks a lot for all the insights guys.

I’m a member at the local range and they have an active year round trap group, but I haven’t checked it out due to timing, COVID, and lack of a suitable firearm. I have a semi auto Baikal MP155 12ga that might work if I adjust the ejection on it, but it’s a lot like swinging a 2x6 on a windy day.
 
When i worked at Lefebvre's in North Bay I tried to help all customers find the right fit, because the guns were on a rack in a closed room. I am no expert, just read some books, but I think it helped. They could mount the firearms as long as they wanted, and I could see how well they did and where their face wanted to end up and if the length of pull was good enough. It was fun to do and I think some appreciated it. Many women have a strange hold with their longer necks and (!). I like how many firearms have shims to help fit them to you.
Nothing beats a day at the range with some borrowed firearms and a sighting paper to see where you are pointing.
 
I've been fitted twice by gunsmiths who know what they are doing. In both cases one of the key elements was mounting the gun with my eyes closed with the barrels pointing directly at their head.....so they could see whether my standard mount was getting the barrels pointing where my eyes should be looking.

Felt a bit weird as I have this thing about pointing guns at people.
 
Lotro said:
I see a lot of people on this site, and in my local community of shooters proclaim the importance of buying a shotgun that fits. Every experienced shooter that I've met says that more importantly than brand, or shiny finishes is whether or not the gun fits you. When I ask this same group of people how to tell if a shotgun fits, they all shrug and say something along the lines of when you shoulder it, it just feels good.

Unfortunately, as a really inexperienced shooter, this isn't super helpful.

I've done a little bit of googling on shotgun fit, but I have yet to find a place that lets you try before you buy, and yes used from my local gun club might work, but it's hard to start searching when you don't know what you're looking for. With that in mind, does anyone know of a place in Ontario where you can get fitted for a shot gun? Preferably at or near a range?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I see you are in the Soo. When the border re-opens, go here if you want a fitting: http://www.fieldsportltd.com/
 
There's the old quick test where you hold the shotgun at waist level, look fixedly at some distant target, then close your eyes and quickly mount and point the shotgun at were you thing the object is. If you open your eyes and find you are in fact on target, the fit is supposed to be pretty good, if you can repeat that several times, even better. Beware though, when I do this in stores nowadays, I often find that the salesman is staring me as if I was off my nut or performing some magical voodoo ritual, this being due to lack of information you will understand.
 
LOP

https://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/length-pull-matter/

What Is Length of Pull and Why Does It Matter?


One thing that is often overlooked when introducing a new shooter to long-guns is the rifle or shotgun’s length of pull. The length of pull or LOP is the distance from the middle of the trigger to the end of the gun’s buttstock. It is one of the most important aspects of a gun’s dimensions and determines whether the gun will fit you. Meaning how comfortable the gun feels to you and how accurate you can shoot it. With the correct length of pull, you will have quick sight acquisition, better control, better accuracy, and feel more comfortable. Most rifles and shotguns are designed for the average adult male, but many of us, especially women, are not built like your average adult male. Therefore, you will find that many long guns will not feel comfortable when you go to take your first shot. You know you have found the right length of pull for you that when you go to shoulder the gun; your sight picture is right on target, your finger can easily reach the trigger, and you don’t have to strain your neck too far to rest on the gun’s cheek piece.


Every time you shoulder the gun properly, the barrel should be naturally pointing exactly where your dominant eye is targeting.

It is not a simple task getting your exact length of pull correct. There are many determining factors. For example, your overall size, how long or short your neck is, how puffy your cheeks are, the long gun’s drop at comb and heel, to even what you plan to wear when you shoot. The drop at heel is the length between the line of sight and the end of the buttstock. The drop at comb is the measurement between the line of sight and the comb of the stock. The comb is the top part of the gun’s stock where you rest your cheek.

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Your correct length of pull actually has nothing to do with how long your arms are. There is an old wives’ tale saying the measurement between your thumb and elbow equals your correct length of pull. However, this is incorrect. The only way for a proper fit of your length of pull is by visiting a gun fitter. A gun fitter is different from a gunsmith. The gun fitter has a special type of long gun with a special adjustable stock called a fit gun. This service can be costly, time-consuming and difficult to find. High-end shotgunners are more likely to use this service than the average shooter. Because the vast majority of us are NOT high-end shotgunners and simply just looking for a gun we love to shoot, I will help you find your right length of pull.

When trying a rifle or shotgun you are considering purchasing, shoulder the gun exactly as you would if you were to shoot it. Have someone else measure the distance between your nose and thumb. There should be a one to one and half inch gap or about two finger widths of space between your nose and thumb. If there is more space than that, the length of pull is too long. If there is less space, the length of pull is too short.

This shotgun's length of pull is too short and may obstruct the shooter's line of sight.
This shotgun’s length of pull is too short and may obstruct the shooter’s line of sight.
If the length of pull on a long-gun is too short for you, your thumb may obstruct your line of sight. Further, if it is a scoped gun and the LOP is too short, you run the risk of the scope hitting you in the forehead. You might experience more felt recoil if the LOP is too short. If the length of pull is too long, the buttstock can get caught up in your clothing and can affect the speed of your shots. A too short or too long LOP will make the gun uncomfortable to shoot and most likely make you an inaccurate shooter.

The majority of guns come from the factory with a length of pull that is too short. This is okay, because it is easier and more affordable to make the LOP longer than it is to make the gun’s length of pull shorter. You can extend your long guns LOP with stock spacers and recoil or butt pads. To make a too long LOP shorter, you will more than likely have to take your gun to the gunsmith to cut down the stock.


Plenty of guns come with an adjustable length of pull. The Mossberg 100ATR bolt-action rifle and Mossberg’s 500 Super Bantam shotgun include an adjustable length of pull system. Remington’s 11-87 and 870 Youth shotguns have an adjustable length of pull. In addition, Weatherby’s Vanguard Youth bolt-action rifles have an adjustable length of pull. Further, guns like the AR-15 with collapsible stocks have an adjustable length of pull. Aftermarket accessories, such as stock spacers and Remington’s adjustable length of pull system for shotguns will also help adjust an ill-fitting factory gun. Magpul’s PRS stock with adjustable length of pull also has an adjustable cheek piece. Pachmayr’s slip-on recoil pads are an excellent way to extend your length of pull when you are wearing a thinner shirt.

Many of us end up adapting to the gun’s length of pull. Others prefer an “incorrect” length of pull. It comes down to you. Are your shots accurate? Are you comfortable? Do you enjoy shooting the gun? If your answer is yes, then shoot on! If your answer is no, try adjusting your gun’s length of pull and see if that helps.
 
Big Bad said:
There's the old quick test where you hold the shotgun at waist level, look fixedly at some distant target, then close your eyes and quickly mount and point the shotgun at were you thing the object is. If you open your eyes and find you are in fact on target, the fit is supposed to be pretty good, if you can repeat that several times, even better. Beware though, when I do this in stores nowadays, I often find that the salesman is staring me as if I was off my nut or performing some magical voodoo ritual, this being due to lack of information you will understand.
Click to expand...

This method is pretty accurate on telling you how well the stock is generally fitting. Hold the down in both hands, fixate on say a light switch on a distant wall, close your eyes, dont move your head but bring the gun up like you want to shoot the light switch. Open your eyes. If your looking straight down the barrel and the switch is sitting on top of the barrel its a decent fit, If your looking down on the top of the barrel the comb is to high. If your face is buried so you have to raise your head a bit to look down the barrel the comb is to low. If your looking down the side of the barrel somewhat the stock needs more cast on or off to bring your eye in proper alignment. A shotgun is a pointing gun, it is not aimed as per say. In shot gun terms, the front bead on the barrel is the front sight and your eye is the rear sight. The idea here is when you mount the gun to shoot at a bird the fit of the stock positions your eye, "the rear sight" in perfect alignment with the front sight. "the end of the barrel". If you have to start cranking your head up, down or from side to side to see down the barrel properly it is a poor fit for you. Length of pull comes into play as it puts you cheek in a proper position along the stock.

You should do a quick check first off to see which eye is dominant. Make a circle with your thumb and forefinger. With both eyes open put that light switch in the circle you just made with your hand. Close your left eye. If the light switch remains in the circle, your right eye is dominant, if the light switch jumps out of the circle your L eye is dominant. If you try to shoot right handed with a dominant left eye. your going to have a awful time getting a stock to fit you. Most folks shoot ride handed and have dominant right eyes, but there are some who don't so do this simple test to find out.

This is the basics of getting decent stock fit. Armed with this knowledge you will be light years smarter than the fella behind the average gun counter.
 
One of the best experiences I had was with a level 2 NSCA instructor. My gf and I both spent an afternoon with him at the pattern board and range tweeking and making adjustments until we had a determination of how much correction was needed in our stocks. Armed with that info it was off to a competent gunsmith for the recommended tweeks. We got her gun done first and she immediately jumped from shooting 12-15/25 on the trap range to 20-23/25. I still have my gun to do. Just waiting on the fellow to get caught up on his backlog before sending my guns in.
 
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