shotshell issues

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reddog

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I have had a problem lately with some ww super targets jamming in my single barrel and for that matter in my model 12 trap.The model 12 ripped the brass but didn't break the extractor ,and my single was not kicking the odd one out which is really APITA.My cous shoots the same gun says it is just a matter of cleaning the ejector and the barrel with a wire brush.Well until the model 12 instance I thought the same but after a few more jams I took the hulls home and looked at them under the glass.There are some that are definetely tapered from the edge of the brass forward.There is no shoulder definition at all.Trying these in an empty gun and they jammed repeatedly while others with no taper no probs.Factory shells should not cause these probs.but in the age of saving money I guess quality isn't what it once was.Just as an afterthought I run 3 boxes of federals through NO JAMS .Anybody else seen this problem??:(:(
 
Your post isn't exactly clear, but, super targets use a steel base rather than brass.

When a shell with a brass base is fired, the brass expands to seal the chamber and then quickly contracts. Brass retains it's "memory" of it's previous shape to an extent they still have to be resized to be reloaded.

With your super targets, the shells are made with steel bases, which once fired stay expanded. Sometimes incredibly tight. When you have a gun with a tight chamber and model 12's often do, you can get them sticking.

federal top gun's actually use an alloy base not steel as it would appear, hence why they don't get stuck.

There isn't much you can do about it, except go to another shell.
 
gwagen said:
Your post isn't exactly clear, but, super targets use a steel base rather than brass.

When a shell with a brass base is fired, the brass expands to seal the chamber and then quickly contracts. Brass retains it's "memory" of it's previous shape to an extent they still have to be resized to be reloaded.

With your super targets, the shells are made with steel bases, which once fired stay expanded. Sometimes incredibly tight. When you have a gun with a tight chamber and model 12's often do, you can get them sticking.

federal top gun's actually use an alloy base not steel as it would appear, hence why they don't get stuck.

There isn't much you can do about it, except go to another shell.
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Agree. Also to the Op don't think because they are factory new they are fine. I have had more problems with factory shells than any reloads I have shot. I think the steel base is your problem also.
 
Is that the Model 12 you got from me Reddog? I only fired Feds through it as thats all I shoot for everything. Had no issues with it with Feds. I have shot those win super targets and I dont care for them myself. Every now and then I try something different but I always come back to the Federals, they are IMO the best. If thats the Mod 12 you got from me I cant imagine it's plugged up yet, my gawd it had less than 5 flats through it. The original owner, my buddy Jon shoots nothing but AA's and Gold Medals. It was fed the best of the best you know, lol!
 
Yeah I have seen lot of shooters have problems with the winchester universal bulk packs that are available at Wall Mart and Canadian Tire .they are basicly the same shell and have the same ejection and extraction problems.the base swells apon fireing and there stuck in the chamber.30 bucks for a hundred rounds is cheap but you get what you pay for.
 
rembolt said:
Yeah I have seen lot of shooters have problems with the winchester universal bulk packs that are available at Wall Mart and Canadian Tire .they are basicly the same shell and have the same ejection and extraction problems.the base swells apon fireing and there stuck in the chamber.30 bucks for a hundred rounds is cheap but you get what you pay for.
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$30/100 is up there for that junk! God gawd they were only $22/100 not that long ago. You can buy super targets from Le Baron for $56/250 rounds or you can go get Federal Top Gun for $53/250 at Lawry's. At least thats what I paid last April! Maybe they have gone up too?
 
rembolt said:
Yeah I have seen lot of shooters have problems with the winchester universal bulk packs that are available at Wall Mart and Canadian Tire .they are basicly the same shell and have the same ejection and extraction problems.the base swells apon fireing and there stuck in the chamber.30 bucks for a hundred rounds is cheap but you get what you pay for.
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You are right the "Universals" are about the worst shells on the market.
 
If you are going to shoot the cheap stuff Remington Gun Club is the best of the bunch, followed by Federal Top Gun with Winchester Super Target bringing up the rear.

My reloads outperform all of the above. :)
 
Well went to Trapshooters .com seems like they have had the same issues,no Spank it wasn't the Y model it was my old 1948 trap that my partner was using.Seems like the tolerances in my mono gun are the problem but the feds. seem to work just fine.Lucky me I still have 5 cases of those WW but it will be the last 5. Thanks for the feedback gentlemen.
 
Claybuster said:
If you are going to shoot the cheap stuff Remington Gun Club is the best of the bunch, followed by Federal Top Gun with Winchester Super Target bringing up the rear.

My reloads outperform all of the above. :)
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If I have to buy ammo I first go for the remington gun clubs as I can later reload the hulls .my second choise is the federal top gun rounds.bought one brick of the universals and still have three boxes they just will not cycle through my 870.I will probly end up giveing them to a young shooter with a single barrel one of these days.
 
My reloads outperform all of the above. :)[/QUOTE]

Yes I will be reloading the original AA compression formed for another 20 years and won't have to put up with any of this . Target shells were always the highest quality .What happened?? I have probally 10x4 boxes of the 4 pack federals bought at walmart maybe 9 years ago. They were Ok. In fact some guys back then even reloaded them. So they are those junk now also??
 
Reloads

Yes 3Macs1 I did a lot of reloading in the day as well mainly for hunting and turkey shoots but as lead dissappeared and my family grew sold the pacific and all the stuff although I did just find 1000 remington blue magic hulls??Am truly dissapointed in the WW AA they used to be top notch..:(
 
reddog said:
I have had a problem lately with some ww super targets jamming in my single barrel and for that matter in my model 12 trap.The model 12 ripped the brass but didn't break the extractor ,and my single was not kicking the odd one out which is really APITA.My cous shoots the same gun says it is just a matter of cleaning the ejector and the barrel with a wire brush.Well until the model 12 instance I thought the same but after a few more jams I took the hulls home and looked at them under the glass.There are some that are definetely tapered from the edge of the brass forward.There is no shoulder definition at all.Trying these in an empty gun and they jammed repeatedly while others with no taper no probs.Factory shells should not cause these probs.but in the age of saving money I guess quality isn't what it once was.Just as an afterthought I run 3 boxes of federals through NO JAMS .Anybody else seen this problem??:(:(
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I have had problems with these - especially certain lots.

The hull material is really soft and I often not round or are oversize.

I have had feeding issues and extraction issues.

Bar none I have noticed more problems from Winchester promotional ammo vs. gun club, federal or gamebore.
 
reddog said:
Yes 3Macs1 I did a lot of reloading in the day as well mainly for hunting and turkey shoots but as lead dissappeared and my family grew sold the pacific and all the stuff although I did just find 1000 remington blue magic hulls??Am truly dissapointed in the WW AA they used to be top notch..:(
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Loaded a ton of those peters blue magics over the years with red dot if I recall correctly. They were before the rxp's. My Dad didnot like them said they were a softer hull vs the AA which didnot last as long so guess who would get them to use.
Are you saying the new AA HS hulls are not quality?? I have not reloaded any in 12ga but I know the guys that load them in 28ga say they get 12 reloads no problem and they are better than the old compression formed.This win HS stuff is all new to me .
 
superd222 said:
I've only loaded the new AA HS hulls - I'm on reload #3 or #4 and they seem to be OK so far.

However, guys at the club say the same: that the OLD AA's were better.

Time will tell.
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I agree that the old AAs were better, but near the end of the run some of the old AAs were bad. Lots of full length splits on first shot etc.

I load both old and new. I have noticed that the new seem to stay cleaner after firing. Some of the old ones look like I took them out of the burning barrel. After a couple loadings, both old and new go into my 391 and I let them fly.

I agree with the Rem Gun Club being the best of the promo stuff, but in my area they are hard to find. I spoke to a buyer from WSS and he said that the reason they have not stocked them recently is that Remington has raised the cost to near what premium stuff is sold for.

Sometimes I think that problems with extraction etc. just are between gun and shell. A shooting friend of mine brings me once fired blue magic and blue RXP hulls to run through my super sizer. He claims that after once firing in his mono gun, they will no longer fit in same gun when sized by his loader. Everything else he puts into his Ljutic work fine and without my super sizing those blue magic hulls work in everything else he has. Who knows.
 
I am loading tons of both the old AA's and the AAHS. I can see why guys like the old AA's all right, but I have come to like the AAHS quite a bit since they are so available and since I found the proper wads to use with them. The AAHS are a bit shorter than the old AA's and there were all sorts of complaints on the net about getting poor crimps and seeing creases in the cases and so on. Personally I didn't have much problem with them with my press and the Down Range 1 1/8 oz wad (blue) and 1 oz (Red) wads load beautifully in them, as do the WAA 12L wads or the CB0178 clone. I'm sure there are other wads one can use too. One I'm tempted to try is the Clear Duster for 7/8 oz loads. Another reason the new AA wads got bad press came from reports that the base wad might become disconnected. Of course, this could cause real problems if it happened and the wad lodged in the barrel without one being aware of it. I haven't personally experienced this and as far as I know, Winchester says reloading the AA hulls is OK, though they don't 'recommend' reloading the cheapy hulls (Super Target).
 
Very interested in the AA info .I am wondering if someone could cross section a AA and the AAhs .so we could see the difference.I have heard of the base comeing loose in the AAhs .I have no experince with them so I can't say .I bought 500 AA from a member in the EE they don't look any different than some old AA s I have.
 
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