Should Crossbows be Allowed in Archery Only Season?

[Morpheus32]

Most bowhunters in BC are not concerned about Crossbows in bow seasons. Sure, there are the elitist snobs, just like in any sport, that think that "if you don't do it the way I do it, it shouldn't be allowed"

These elitists do nothing but make themselves look foolish while alienating potential allies.

BC's only provincial bowhunting organization recognizes crossbows as legitimate archery gear for bow only seasons (although I know there are still some elitist snobs within their ranks that dont' like it)

Bunch of crybaby bedwetters...

The problem here is the Alberta question is a bit more complicated than is it archery equipment or not. SRD has a concept on how they will implement the inclusion and the impact on hunting could be huge. SRD's policy has been to error on the conservative side when it comes to harvests. This simple and clearly emotional question might bring on a series of unintended consequences which may change how a large number of people hunt in Alberta. I would prefer that we set emotion aside and work on some facts....which there are precious few at this point.

 

[HunterDave]

Maybe your position on crossbows being included is self serving since YOU want have it same as compound and traditional bowhunters so that YOU can hunt in the bow season?

A poll is like statistics, you can manipulate them anyway you want. I for want some facts on the impact of the inclusion of crossbows. It seems to me that SRD acknowledges that changes will take place. Without an analysis of the impact, it is all emotional tripe. If you asked gun hunters if they would be willing to give up 5% of the harvest to the archery season to allow the inclusion of crossbows...you might get a little different response from Alberta hunters. As with most emotional based discussions on change...the position of change all you want...as long as it does not effect me or it is the change I want. Sound kind of familiar. I would prefer to see a clear discussion on the impact of this decision on hunting both for the archery and rifle seasons. It seems to me that some advocates of crossbows in the archery season see an increase in opportunity or they don't care about the impact since they figure they will just be hunting whitetails. Again, all sides, self interested. Better to have a plan and discuss that than this emotional garbage.

I suggest we lobby SRD to provide a more realistic plan on the inclusion rather than this emotional crap.

Morpheus32, You don't seem to understand my situation at all. I already hunt with a crossbow because of a shoulder disability that prevents me from hunting with a longbow or a compound bow. I've already gone through the loops and hoops and doctor's letters and I have a crossbow permit in my possession. I have NOTHING to gain to have crossbows included in Archery Only season. In fact, if hunter numbers increase and the harvest rates change dramatically enough to warrant general seasons going to draw for Archery Only season I have MORE TO LOSE. I did NOT want to post this information because I wanted to remain as neutral as possible for the sake of the poll. I already know my opinion, I want to know other people's opinion.

I truly believe that the poll that I posted was as unbiased as I possibly could have made it. YES, NO, NEUTRAL, UNDECIDED or DON'T CARE and WHAT DO YOU PRESENTLY USE FOR HUNTING. The only reason that I included the second part of the poll was because I was curious about what segments of the hunting community were going to vote what. And, the only reason that I posted the poll on CGN was to get unbiased opinions of what other hunters from across Canada thought about it......that's it! WHAT COULD I HAVE DONE BETTER???

There's no hidden agenda, conspiracy or manipulation of the poll involved. What's not to understand?

So, yes, I agree 100% that there is NO requirement for the emotional CRAP!

 

[Gatehouse]

The question is "how many more animals will be killed"

Not "how many more hunters.

My guess is not many. New bowhunters have very low success rates, regardless of which sort of bow they use.

Need to manage seasons on science, not emotions or individual ideals of what is proper. hopefully the province figures that out.

 

[Kelly Timoffee]

Someone didn't get enough hugs! Why all the generalizations?

Hunt with what you want, here in Sask you hunt bow, you get 2 more months of hunting over rifle, hunt cross bow or black powder , you get one more month over rifle. Just another form of hunting, that is all.

Either way if you use a bow or cross bow you gotta be close, that in itself will weed out your "lazy ass generation"

Sounds like if you had it your way we would all be using pointy sticks to prove our abilities and lack of laziness as hunters.

First of all,why are so many people confused over the poll options,as Ricky would say,"it aint rocket appliance",lol.either you are for or against inclusion of x-bows in real bow season and what kind of equipment do you currently use...duh.

Secondly,I don't beleive the results of this poll for a second,it is heavily skewed by current x-bow hunters that think they are real bowhunters imho,most likely Ontarians would be my guess?No f'n way do I beleive that 30%+ of current real "bowhunters" are in favor of allowing wannabe bowhunters with x-bows into real bow seasons.Anyone that thinks x-bows are as challenging to use successfully as even the most modern compound either doesn't have a fn clue,is a current x-bow hunter trying to justify themselves,is an x-bow industry rep motivated by personal gain and is trying to convince those that don't know any better or are indifferent,or a combination of all or any of the above.Might as well just allow single shot slug guns into bow season as well.....pffft!X-bows have most of the same advantages as a single shot firearm inside of 50 yards,cocked and ready to fire in a split second,scoped sight,no practice or dedication required to become proficient,no game scaring drawing movement....the list goes on.I could give 100 more good reasons why x-bows should not be allowed and how they differ from vertical,hand drawn bows if I had the time or desire to beat this dead horse,but fact is,they ARE NOT bows,they shoot a broadhead tipped projectile powered by stored energy in limbs but that's where the similarity ends.If you want to BOW hunt,get a vertical bow and spend some time learning how to use it instead of trying to justify your lazy ass,generation instant gratifaction,out-of-the-box-instant "bowhunter" agenda.

FYI,a previous poster asked "who was pushing for these changes" or something similarily worded?The answer in most cases,in most states and provinces,is it's the x-bow manufacturers and retaliers pushing for legalizing x-bows.In jurisictions where x-bows are allowed in firearm seasons only,sales of x-bows are slow or stagnant.Without inclusion into the archery season,there isn't much incentive for people to buy one.When allowed into traditional bow seasons,depending on the hunting population of any given jurisdiction,it can open up the potential for MILLIONS of dollars in new x-bow sales....wake up!Studies in several U.S. states have shown that 25-40% of "gunhunters" will cross over to "bowhunting" where x-bows are allowed during archery only seasons,while less than 3% of "gunhunters" choose to handicap themselves with x-bows if they are only allowed in firearm seasons.The x-bow industry is not looking out for your best interest or considering how increased "archery" success rates will affect quotas,which in turn affects everybody,gun and bow hunters alike.There(the industry's) only concern is increased sales and they are lobbying hard to provincial and state agencies to have thir toys included as legal gear.

FWIW,I have no problem with physically challenged hunters using x-bows during bow season if they are truly unable to draw a vertical bow....with a doctor's certification of course.

 

[crazy_davey]

This simple and clearly emotional question might bring on a series of unintended consequences which may change how a large number of people hunt in Alberta. I would prefer that we set emotion aside and work on some facts....which there are precious few at this point.

Exactly. SRD has no facts on how numbers will be effected if crossbows are allowed in archery season so they are going on emotion and opinion .

I posted this before in the other exact same thread:

Some folks seem to think that there would be a massive amount of people who will run out and buy crossbows if they were allowed in archery season, it wouldn't happen. Ya, you might get some who try it, but when they realize that there is no difference from hunting with a bow the novelty will wear off pretty quickly.

If someone can show me some statistics from other areas where including crossbows in archery season had a negative effect overall(including game populations), please do. Until then, my opinion will stay the same...

And I mean actual documented numbers, not some wannabe biologists opinion.

 

[HunterDave]

Exactly. SRD has no facts on how numbers will be effected if crossbows are allowed in archery season so they are going on emotion and opinion .

I posted this before in the other exact same thread:

I doubt that SRD are making decisions based on emotion. Regardless of what anyone might think of them they are still educated professionals. They can't though, predict what the increase in hunters would be or what their success rates would be.

The inclusion of crossbows into Archery Only seasons is not a ground breaking idea. There are numerous states in the US that have included crossbows into archery seasons and they have stats on the harvest rates, etc. This, I suspect is where SRD are getting allot of their information from to tabulate the repercussions of including crossbows into Alberta Archery Only seasons.

 

[crazy_davey]

I doubt that SRD are making decisions based on emotion.

This, I suspect is where they are getting allot of their information from to tabulate the repercussions of including crossbows into Alberta Archery Only seasons

You doubt, and you suspect.

Again, I will say this:

If someone can show me some statistics from other areas where including crossbows in archery season had a negative effect overall(including game populations), please do. Until then, my opinion will stay the same...

 

[crazy_davey]

The question is "how many more animals will be killed"

Not "how many more hunters.

My guess is not many. New bowhunters have very low success rates, regardless of which sort of bow they use.

Need to manage seasons on science, not emotions or individual ideals of what is proper. hopefully the province figures that out.

Thanks Gate, I agree.

 

[USP]

Wouldnt most agree that there are only "x" amount of hunters out there anyways and whether they hunt with a bow, gun or crossbow the amount harvested wont increase much as hunting is dwindling sport anyways?

I just bought a crossbow to hunt with as well. I dont see how adding more restrictions and limitations benefits anybody in the long run.

BTW, one thing I dont get, how is bow hunting harder than crossbow hunting if in bow hunting a guy is in a blind or up a tree stand? Where as the hunt I have planned is just wandering around a large forest and field looking for a deer?

Many years ago I use to shoot Archery competively. I dont see from a purely technical point of view that a Bow is vastly more diffircult to use than a crossbow. If anything, I think a bow is slightly more stable. Perhaps hunting is different though.

 

[Suka]

The real issue in Alberta is not compound vs crossbow, it's that the "archery union" for lack of a better description(although that's a fair one) percieves this as a threat to their longstanding general tag free for all and 3-4 month seasons.

You see, if there's more demand for bow tags Some could become a draw rather than a general tag. (that's why they're claiming, "less opportunity") As to who is pushing this, well I"d guess the real number of bow only hunters is a heck of a lot smaller than bow only hunters may think, and could be that's going to be reflected in the seasons. (try and sell a used bow and you'll see how much demand there Really is. )

Myself, bow doesn't interest me. I'm not the type that's willing to sit in a stand and wait for something to walk by, and I'm not comfortable with waiting for an animal to "stiffen up". The majority of my rifle kills have been within bow range, or awful close to it.
On the srd thing I voted neutral, here I voted yes. If guys want to use a crossbow, I don't see a difference. A purist wouldn't be using a compound, so I don't see how anyone using a compound can criticize.

 

[John Y Cannuck]

In Ontario crossbow (and regular archery equipment) is allowed during rifle, black powder, and bows only seasons provided you wear orange during the rifle and black powder seasons.


I think that's completely fair.

 

[grinrgrn]

If someone can show me some statistics from other areas where including crossbows in archery season had a negative effect overall(including game populations), please do. Until then, my opinion will stay the same...

And I mean actual documented numbers, not some wannabe biologists opinion.

Ohio: X-bows legalised for archery season,40% of gunhunters became overnight,out-of-the-box,wannabe bowhunters.

Georgia: X-bows legalised for archery season,25% of gunhunters became overnight,out-of-the-box,wannabe bowhunters.


Quebec: (2005?...2006?),x-bows legalised for whitetail hunting during archery only season,dramatic increase in "bowhunter" success rate exceeding predictions and quotas,bow season currently being adjusted and quotas reduced accordingly.

 

[beefman]

Ohio: X-bows legalised for archery season,40% of gunhunters became overnight,out-of-the-box,wannabe bowhunters.

Georgia: X-bows legalised for archery season,25% of gunhunters became overnight,out-of-the-box,wannabe bowhunters.


Quebec: (2005?...2006?),x-bows legalised for whitetail hunting during archery only season,dramatic increase in "bowhunter" success rate exceeding predictions and quotas,bow season currently being adjusted and quotas reduced accordingly.

Anyone can pull stats out of their A**....Post links to legitimate Government data.

Have you ever hunted with, or shot a X-bow?

 

[JamesM]

I would love to see crossbows legal for deer nation wide its far easier to become proficient with a cross bow faster so all those youngsters and others who deicide to give bow hunting a whirl for the first time can pick it up quicker and have greater confidence and more fun. I suspect you'd see a lot of the younger fellows try it with the cross bow for a season or 2 and then move on to the compound bow when they want more of a challenge and then as the get old and drawing a compound becomes difficult they'd dust off their old crossbows for a few more seasons. It will make it easier for women and those who've sufferred injuries.

 

[crazy_davey]

Ohio: X-bows legalised for archery season,40% of gunhunters became overnight,out-of-the-box,wannabe bowhunters.

Georgia: X-bows legalised for archery season,25% of gunhunters became overnight,out-of-the-box,wannabe bowhunters.

Blah, blah, blah. Typical ignorant garbage with no actual information .

How many of those "wannbe hunters" hunters were succesfull? No idea right?

Quebec: (2005?...2006?),x-bows legalised for whitetail hunting during archery only season,dramatic increase in "bowhunter" success rate exceeding predictions and quotas,bow season currently being adjusted and quotas reduced accordingly.

Again, no actual numbers, just a dramatic response from someone with nothing to add.

When you have some solid information with links to back it, please post it.

 

[fmb]

- read first choice.
- read second choice.
- read half of third choice.
- diagonnally read all remaining choices.
- Come to conclusion that poll has too many choices.
- reply to thread about that fact
- close window, carry on with life

Well put.

 

[HunterDave]

Anyone can pull stats out of their A**....Post links to legitimate Government data.

Have you ever hunted with, or shot a X-bow?

Here's one link that seems to have allot of good stats about success rates with crossbows for states in the US. For anyone that wants to dig deeper I would suspect that you'd get some good info by googling different states that permit bowhunting now:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09193/983377-358.stm

 

[norskie]

A complete aside guys, but why the sudden urge to make this happen?

Why are we not trying to lobby for a comprehensive evaluation of harvesting tool regulation if the tools used don't fit. An example might be if I were to shoot a historic caliber it may well be less lethal than today's inline muzzle loaders.

Can we look forward to another divisible argument amongst the hunting community a couple of years down the road?

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I don't like changes to the current system based on arguing a tool use without due consideration given to the resources we all use. I don't have data to suggest that this may be the case, but comparing data from the US or other Canadian provinces is a bit risky too. Completely different areas, regulations and models.

Why don't they look at piloting this in a couple of zones?

Sorry for the highjack - maybe better on crazy davey's other thread on Technology...

Will there be consideration for my trebuchet in the archery season?

 

[grinrgrn]

Blah, blah, blah. Typical ignorant garbage with no actual information .

How many of those "wannbe hunters" hunters were succesfull? No idea right?



Again, no actual numbers, just a dramatic response from someone with nothing to add.

When you have some solid information with links to back it, please post it.

This is an exerpt from the Quebec report: Expérimentation de la chasse au cerf de Virginie à l’arbalète dans la région de la Capitale-Nationale pour les saisons de chasse 2002 à 2004 par Héloïse Bastien
The report summarize the conclusions and recommendations generated from the experimental seasons that were introduced in 2002 - 2004 in zones 3 and 15.
The report speaks about concerns related to deer population management, as the introduction of crossbows into the bow season has essentially doubled the number of deer harvested during the bow season across Quebec. The significant increase in the harvest of antlerless deer was a phenomenon managers had not anticipated and have had to make adjustments (antlerless permits) to control this.

 

[Kelly Timoffee]

The system we have here in Sask allows you the same number of animals you can harvest in almost the entire province. Shoot your either ### tag in bow season you are done, don't fill it, you can carry on through muzzle loader season with it and into rifle.
Seems to work here, no reports stating that our deer numbers are changing or regulation changes.

There is a few zones that are strictly archery in some populated areas that have high deer numbers.