Should there be more prone or kneeling shooting in IPSC?

Should there be more prone or kneeling in IPSC?

  • Hell yeah, I like to get down and dirty, and get's my adrenaline running!

    Votes: 24 26.1%

  • I wouldn't mind one prone/kneeling stage in every match.

    Votes: 32 34.8%

  • One prone/kneeling stage per year is more than enough for me.

    Votes: 15 16.3%

  • Hell no, IPSC is about speed and fun; you want to be tacticool, join IDPA!

    Votes: 21 22.8%
  • Total voters
    92
Crosswind

Crosswind

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I ask this now because I recently participated in laser tag (which involved a lot of ducking behind cover) and it got me thinking that soldiers and officers would be doing most (if not all) of their shooting in the prone or crouched position behind cover/concealment. And if they got in a surprise firefight, they would likely be engaging while moving towards cover and/or getting low.

However, in most IPSC matches (at least in my region) there seems to be a lack (or aversion) to prone/kneeling shooting. Because prone and kneeling positions are seldom required in IPSC, I almost never practice them, and I'm not sure how many other people practice them either.

So what would be your opinion to match directors? More prone or kneeling, or none at all?
 
I like reverse prone.....i.e. a lawn chair, very comfortable shooting position.
:)
Seriously though, I think a match should try and test most/all skill sets required of a competitor.
Even more important, is giving the competitor options in a stage, including the option of kneeling or going prone, and let competitors decide what they believe is the best way to shoot the stage.

And as for the poll, if there was a way to blend option 2 and 4, that would be my choice.
 
Check this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWEQFYKMk6g&playnext=1&list=PL6314B80907D574C4&feature=results_video
We have very little kneeling in Canada, even less in US, but it is an essential element of any dynamic shooting.
Kneeling in most of the cases is substituted with crouching, which is faster. To kneel for me instead crouch I would have to have a target at more than 15m or with higher difficulty.
Low kneeling is what most of us should focus. Take a look at the Max clip at 1'55", he demonstrates one of very low kneeling technique without twisting his upper body.
Very important is grip in low kneeling. Also, we should practice both, left and right leg entry. Best place to do it is in a gym or home.
On Max clip, he sits on his right foot to gain even more clearance. It is slower to get up from this than from having right back foot arched and ready to rapidly continue the course of fire.

Prone, is to get really low and don't rest the pistol on the ground if you are shooting Standard or Production. It is not natural for your head, at least it doesn't work for me with 126mm mags.
Max is showing this with 140mm mag, which elevates the gun little bit. Another danger of resting pistol with mag on the ground is potential malfunctions. It is not worth it in my opinion of this.
There is a variation of prone, depends on the distance. We can go two knees to the ground, twist to the right (for right handed shooter), either support right elbow on right knee and we have prone. It works good for me up to 20m.

Good Luck
 
I can drop into prone pretty quickly, but I may need a little help getting back up :) So please do it at the end of the stage rather than the beginning. Remember, it's a shooting competition not a track and field event. Movement is part of it, but there's a balance.
 
Fell free to go prone or kneel at any time during a stage. Stages should offer options, not force people into specific shooting positions or areas.
 
I agree with 'pmt'.
I hate going low in the middle of the stage, but everyone has to go down.
I hated, when at this year Nationals, organizers were providing ramps for short shooters. No one was accommodating me, when I was going low.
When we build stages, balance should be applied and not help for height as long as everything is within the rules.
 
Matches are a test of your ability to engage targets from a variety of positions, if I'm not forcing you to shoot from a position then I'm not testing your ability to shoot from that position. I'm all for putting options in a stage and letting shooters solve the problem, but its not supposed to be a test to see if you can figure out how to shoot the whole thing standing in an open area. A good stage should require everyone to have to adopt the same positions but then let the shooters have the freedom to decide what targets best to shoot from each one, not how to avoid them all.
 
PH Racing said:
...A good stage should require everyone to have to adopt the same positions but then let the shooters have the freedom to decide what targets best to shoot from each one, not how to avoid them all.
Click to expand...

Ahem... that stage of yours draw and shoot one popper. Did I missed the freedom part there or you're admitting that was a crappy stage? :)
 
euxx said:
Ahem... that stage of yours draw and shoot one popper. Did I missed the freedom part there or you're admitting that was a crappy stage? :)
Click to expand...

You're awfully hung up on a stage that you didn't even see. But its not unusual for you to comment in things you know nothing about. Yes there were options, you could kneel if you needed to, one or two people did, you could fire one quick shot and give up since a miss only cost 5 points in this case, or you could keep shooting until you put it down or run out of ammo. It tested your draw and accuracy. I know you are still new at this sport so you probably have not seen the variety of stages that some of us have or you wouldn't see this as an unusual stage. We've done lots of two, three, four and five shot stages in the past.
 
More of everything. Strong hand/weak hand stuff. running,kneeling ect. Low ports high ports doesn't matter, but prone should be limited to say once at a match and not every match. Have seen many a shooter struggle going into prone or trying to get back up. Bad knee's, back or just age but not so cool for everyone.
 
If we combine prone with Madness' trampoline suggestion.... prone on a trampoline, time your shot and bounce right back up!!!

This could be the second coming of that trampoline basketball league, but IPSC version!!!!
Cheerleaders would be a natural fit.
And we could use ziplines to travel between stages.

It writes itself.
IPSC will be obsolete within a year.
 
PH Racing said:
You're awfully hung up on a stage that you didn't even see. But its not unusual for you to comment in things you know nothing about. Yes there were options, you could kneel if you needed to, one or two people did, you could fire one quick shot and give up since a miss only cost 5 points in this case, or you could keep shooting until you put it down or run out of ammo. It tested your draw and accuracy. I know you are still new at this sport so you probably have not seen the variety of stages that some of us have or you wouldn't see this as an unusual stage. We've done lots of two, three, four and five shot stages in the past.
Click to expand...

Anyone who started shooting this sport yesterday know, that even 0.1 point is better then zeroed stage. So, leaving a miss on the one-popper-only stage is not really an option. Now you claim to be long in the sport, and that really makes me wonder... anyone know that keeling for a plain view target doesn't give you any advantage or stability. You just admitted it. Thanks for that.
 
Perhaps .01 point is better, but shooting 30 rounds at a single popper for a mere 5 points is hardly worth it.
And if you are not hitting the target, or not capable of hitting the target from a freestyle position, a braced or supported kneeling position might get you that .01 point. And I'd say a supported kneeling position is way more stable for long shots than a freestyle stance. If you'd ever shot other shooting sports like oh say PPC, you'd know that.
 
Pat, please don't portray yourself as an only person who has been all around and know everything, Eugene, maybe sometimes is an ass, but he has been to so many matches in his few years of shooting that he has pretty good knowledge himself. I don't want to question your abilities, but rather point out that there are people whose BB has higher near, but still know quite a bit and want to do things. This is not the point though, you guys both right, because our type of shooting has so many options. Pat, if you want to silence your opposition run a nice level III match. I can assure you, I will come and help, will build a stage on my own, even if needed design one, but besides running 40-50 rounds matches 3-4 a year, I have not seen nothing more from Sharon. Now, please chill out, I don't want to be critical, rather offer help, but for something larger. Level III match in the GTA will sell quick. Think about it.
Cheers.
 
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