Should we consider improved cartridges true wildcats?
- Thread starter Robmcleod82
- Start date
We all know that you can put a factory cartridge into an improved chamber. But the SAAMI approved cartridge you are using is not an improved cartridge until you fireform and load it yourself...
I gotta agree with this.
Same case, same bullet diameter, same factory barrel "improved", can still shoot the dedicated factory cartridge, nothing "new" being created here, and literally the whole point and reasoning behind improved chamberings.
If an AI chamber is a wildcat, then any sloppy cut chamber in any cartridge that is over SAAMI specs eating a field gauge would also be a wildcat by the same logic.
I can see the perspective from both sides, but what is "wildcatting" then?" If a non-OEM person "AI'ing" a case is not wildcatting, then is necking an existing case up or down wildcatting? Do you have to design a new case from scratch before you are creating a wildcat?
My own opinion is that if anyone not affiliated with an OEM makes a change to a cartridge case, they have created a wildcat. As for whether a factory round can be chambered, I would say it is not what goes into the chamber, but what comes out of the chamber that defines it. Once SAAMI or CIP recognize and standardize a "NEW" cartridge it ceases being a wildcat. People discuss cartridges all the time that "used to be" wildcats, they were novel when created (or improved), but have now been standardized and accepted. In my opinion the 280 AI "was" a wildcat, but is no longer a wildcat, the same can be said of most others. In more recent times, there have been partnerships between firearms and ammunition manufactures to bring a new cartridge to market along with the associated promotion (hype), given that there are R&D teams working on both sides, I would not consider the resulting cartridge to be a wildcat.
My own opinion is that if anyone not affiliated with an OEM makes a change to a cartridge case, they have created a wildcat. As for whether a factory round can be chambered, I would say it is not what goes into the chamber, but what comes out of the chamber that defines it. Once SAAMI or CIP recognize and standardize a "NEW" cartridge it ceases being a wildcat. People discuss cartridges all the time that "used to be" wildcats, they were novel when created (or improved), but have now been standardized and accepted. In my opinion the 280 AI "was" a wildcat, but is no longer a wildcat, the same can be said of most others. In more recent times, there have been partnerships between firearms and ammunition manufactures to bring a new cartridge to market along with the associated promotion (hype), given that there are R&D teams working on both sides, I would not consider the resulting cartridge to be a wildcat.
A two volumn set, that used to come with a slide rule computer for figuring out things like case volume and suitable propellants. Great read. - dan
Agree. 22-250, 25-06, 280 AI, 260 Rem, the list of "used to be" wildcats is long. But once a factory is making them, they no longer are. Could even stretch that for small volume producers like A-Square or ADG etc. - dan
It's simple. There is no factory loaded ammunition made that you can chamber. (not just hard to find - but not made). The brass has to be custom made to be fired.
Necking cases up or down? Well obviously necking a 308 down to 7mm or .243 isn't. Necking a 30-06 to .22 would be. Improved versions are not and never have been a wildcat. Improved versions are designed to use a factory case. They have always had a factory parent case that would chamber to fire form the "improved" case.
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Even simpler, OEM's don't manufacture for cartridges that have not been standardized and recognized by SAAMI or CIP...some outlier thought a case tweak would be a good idea, for some real or imagined advantage. That independent change is a "wildcat" until it gains recognition by the governing bodies... regardless if you can chamber a factory round or not.
- Location
- Van. Is. B.C.
Again I say that my 219 Zipper is again a wildcat even though there is a SAAMI drawing and pressure limits set. As to obsolete I don’t know, inefficient yes, in my mod 64 with flat tipped bullets, but in a bolt gun perhaps no.
If we look at the firearms literature of the day, almost all of it describes AI cartridges as wildcats. Which makes sense really. If you wanted to use an improved cartridge you had to have your rifle rechambered and/or rebarreled, you had to form cases to fit your wildcat chamber and there was no recognized specifications for the cartridge.
+1... or +2... or +3, as the case may be... I didn't go through the whole thread.
