Show me your pgw rifles

Bile said:
can confirm. Did you talk to Nate? c14s had massive fleet issues. Called them disco guns since the groups looked like random bullsh!t with 4 inch groups at 100m. Then they came out with the epicyclic curve or some sh!t explaining the clover leaf would "tighten up" the further out you went. utter nonsense.

They were close to junk imo. plumbers had to rip them all apart, cut them and put them all back together and you'd be excited to have 1.5-2moa instead of the disco garbage since that's the ammo's capability. After dumping .50s at 500 into 3 inch groups, everyone figured out these c14s needed to fnck off. The issue I had with them is the bolt knob was so poorly placed it always rasps the knuckle on your shooting finger every time. check out the photo from arsenal and check where his finger is. Bleeding knuckles = bullsh!t. Thankfully these are on their way out and hopefully to the melter.
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Ahh yes, here's the BS again! EVERY single rifle fired three, five shot groups at 300y and the targets were witnessed and measured by a DND appointed QA rep from 17 Wing. The calculation called for a hit probability based on a formula created by DND of 90%, we averaged over 95%. We still have these targets for all 172 rifles that we supplied. The rifles were trialed and tested with 250 Loc-base and Scenar. However, DND purchased all of their ammo with sealing tar in the neck, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what that does to accuracy. Look at all the efforts that people put into neck tension these days, it's a whole industry.

So then you get a bunch of people that blame the rifle, instead of looking at the system, including the ammo and go on a witch hunt to destroy the reputation of our company. The rifles were under a lifetime warranty until a bunch of hacks started 'ripping them apart and cutting them' and didn't fix it because it wasn't the rifle, it was the ammo. End result, it was our reputation that got trashed, so that the hacks wouldn't lose their jobs.

The bolt handle on the original and trial rifles was at a different angle, would you like to see the email from LCMM Small Arms (Gary C.) telling me to angle it down more?

The rifles far exceeded DND's accuracy specification in the as shipped condition.
DND spec'd ammo that was suited for a belt fed weapon, not a precision rifle system.
The rifles had a lifetime warranty that wasn't utilized, instead a bunch of hacks voided the warranty and never fixed the problem.
I believe the last shipment was in 2007, nowhere near 2012.
 
LeadMonkey said:
Please explain, because that is exactly what he wrote.
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He states right in his post that problems were seen right away on the later batches. The problems didn't just appear 10 years later.

I personally have no knowledge of these specific issues, so obviously more context and info would be required to make any further analysis. Who knows how and why things specifically worked out between the DND and PGW and the specifics to what occurred.

I know just as much as you, so it's all a guess and I'm not going to make any judgements either way without more info.
 
kthomas said:
He states right in his post that problems were seen right away on the later batches. The problems didn't just appear 10 years later.

I personally have no knowledge of these specific issues, so obviously more context and info would be required to make any further analysis. Who knows how and why things specifically worked out between the DND and PGW and the specifics to what occurred.

I know just as much as you, so it's all a guess and I'm not going to make any judgements either way without more info.
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I guess you can read the statement a couple different ways, but it doesn’t really make sense… yes says problems appear right out of the box but then says would have occurred after warranty expired to explain why they wouldn’t contact the manufacturer.

Are we supposed to believe the military took possession of a batch in 2012 that passed inspection on delivery and then never used any of them until years later after the LIFETIME warranty expired that have wildly excessive head space issues?
 
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PGW Steve said:
Ahh yes, here's the BS again! EVERY single rifle fired three, five shot groups at 300y and the targets were witnessed and measured by a DND appointed QA rep from 17 Wing. The calculation called for a hit probability based on a formula created by DND of 90%, we averaged over 95%. We still have these targets for all 172 rifles that we supplied. The rifles were trialed and tested with 250 Loc-base and Scenar. However, DND purchased all of their ammo with sealing tar in the neck, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what that does to accuracy. Look at all the efforts that people put into neck tension these days, it's a whole industry.

So then you get a bunch of people that blame the rifle, instead of looking at the system, including the ammo and go on a witch hunt to destroy the reputation of our company. The rifles were under a lifetime warranty until a bunch of hacks started 'ripping them apart and cutting them' and didn't fix it because it wasn't the rifle, it was the ammo. End result, it was our reputation that got trashed, so that the hacks wouldn't lose their jobs.

The bolt handle on the original and trial rifles was at a different angle, would you like to see the email from LCMM Small Arms (Gary C.) telling me to angle it down more?

The rifles far exceeded DND's accuracy specification in the as shipped condition.
DND spec'd ammo that was suited for a belt fed weapon, not a precision rifle system.
The rifles had a lifetime warranty that wasn't utilized, instead a bunch of hacks voided the warranty and never fixed the problem.
I believe the last shipment was in 2007, nowhere near 2012.
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Oh my god! What a nightmare!!! Leave it to government to put garbage belt fed ammo in precision instruments and then destroy the system instead of trying different ammunition.
 
LeadMonkey said:
I guess you can read the statement a couple different ways, but it doesn’t really make sense… yes says problems appear right out of the box but then says would have occurred after warranty expired to explain why they wouldn’t contact the manufacturer.

Are we supposed to believe the military took possession of a batch in 2012 that passed inspection on delivery and then never used any of them until years later after warranty expired that have wildly excessive head space issues?
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Who knows. This is the government we are talking about.

Maybe the rifles were sitting in sea cans somewhere collecting dust for years before ever being used. Maybe the collective all-knowing knowledge of the government/military couldn't diagnose or even understand they were having issues until years later. Maybe the shooters weren't good enough or knowledgeable enough to identify the issues and then run it up the chain for further diagnostics.

But its really all conjecture and he said/she said, we are lacking a lot if info and context, and we probably won't gain any more info here on CGN. I'm going to go back and watch this one from the sidelines...
 
honestly im not 100% on the round count of all of them. my friend said after they identified it on in service guns thet started going through war stock and finding the same issue. this was not an issue on the original batch.

it passed by un noticed for so long because the rifles head spaced ok on a gauge. i think he
said someone noticed wear on the bolt handle were it engages the safety lug on a rifle that failed to headspace... and then they found the wear on a lot more. particularly rifles that were "not shooting well."
it was them assesed that the bolts were infact headspaced off the safety lug not tge bolt lugs, which is why many started acting up with what is considered low round counts.
 
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its funny he said 2007...
because i said 2012 based of an awarded contract for rifles and parts.

yeah never had issues with the ammo.. .50 was a laser beam out of the browning... we were picking off 2x2 posts on the figure 11s at 500m with it on single shot. the ivi .308 is some of the best bulk ammo ive ever shot, its to bad its no longer surplused. the sealant on the neck only really effects verticle stringing and only at long range.. the velocity swings were pretty minor vs lots of commercial ammo ive tested.

i love the fact he thinks im out to destroy the reputation of his company.
i actually really liked the guns, i thought they were awesome. i knew they weren't super accurate from guys in the sniper cell, but i didny realize there was a huge issue. i only found out how big a problem they were now having a few months ago when visiting my buddy. he was quite pissed off how many man hours were being put into fixing this issue.
and for the record... these "hack jobs"... fixed the ####ing rifles. as in they started to group properly as intended.
the fact you admit to changing the bolt handles (on request) for latter guns ...and they are the ones with the issue of the bolt head spacing off the bolt handle.... hmmm..
In fact I've never heard a single issue like this on your civilian versions... just the latter batch for the army.
funny that eh? one hell of a quawinkidink.
 
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PGW Steve said:
Ahh yes, here's the BS again! EVERY single rifle fired three, five shot groups at 300y and the targets were witnessed and measured by a DND appointed QA rep from 17 Wing. The calculation called for a hit probability based on a formula created by DND of 90%, we averaged over 95%. We still have these targets for all 172 rifles that we supplied. The rifles were trialed and tested with 250 Loc-base and Scenar. However, DND purchased all of their ammo with sealing tar in the neck, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what that does to accuracy. Look at all the efforts that people put into neck tension these days, it's a whole industry.

So then you get a bunch of people that blame the rifle, instead of looking at the system, including the ammo and go on a witch hunt to destroy the reputation of our company. The rifles were under a lifetime warranty until a bunch of hacks started 'ripping them apart and cutting them' and didn't fix it because it wasn't the rifle, it was the ammo. End result, it was our reputation that got trashed, so that the hacks wouldn't lose their jobs.

The bolt handle on the original and trial rifles was at a different angle, would you like to see the email from LCMM Small Arms (Gary C.) telling me to angle it down more?

The rifles far exceeded DND's accuracy specification in the as shipped condition.
DND spec'd ammo that was suited for a belt fed weapon, not a precision rifle system.
The rifles had a lifetime warranty that wasn't utilized, instead a bunch of hacks voided the warranty and never fixed the problem.
I believe the last shipment was in 2007, nowhere near 2012.
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I havent had the pleasure to meet you. I wouldnt allow the blowhard "I have a friend or I heard blah blah blah" get your steam up. You guys build fantastic weapons that are built like tanks and as accurate or more than anything out there. Ive had the pleasure to shoot a couple different configurations and theyre all extremely accurate. When I had mine I loaded five different loads with three different bullets and two powders and four primers and both small rifle primers and large rifle primers. Long story short was they all made ragged one hole groups of varying size but amazing. No seating changes and firing basically arbitrary sample loads to see if I could find one to tweek for better performance.HUH they would all put a smile on anyones face. Two of my shooting buddies were there and they each fired one group of five. Both were flabbergasted at the accuracy. Shot in comps with active members of JTF2 and all four spoke of how great the rifles were in both the configurations. Dont lower yourself to the trolls. People that own your rifles know what IM TALKING ABOUT AND THESE CLOWNS HAVE NEVER OWNED ONE OF YOUR EXQUISITE FIREARMS. Canadian made and awesome.
 
Longstud said:
I havent had the pleasure to meet you. I wouldnt allow the blowhard "I have a friend or I heard blah blah blah" get your steam up. You guys build fantastic weapons that are built like tanks and as accurate or more than anything out there. Ive had the pleasure to shoot a couple different configurations and theyre all extremely accurate. When I had mine I loaded five different loads with three different bullets and two powders and four primers and both small rifle primers and large rifle primers. Long story short was they all made ragged one hole groups of varying size but amazing. No seating changes and firing basically arbitrary sample loads to see if I could find one to tweek for better performance.HUH they would all put a smile on anyones face. Two of my shooting buddies were there and they each fired one group of five. Both were flabbergasted at the accuracy. Shot in comps with active members of JTF2 and all four spoke of how great the rifles were in both the configurations. Dont lower yourself to the trolls. People that own your rifles know what IM TALKING ABOUT AND THESE CLOWNS HAVE NEVER OWNED ONE OF YOUR EXQUISITE FIREARMS. Canadian made and awesome.
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The irony of your statement lol

As the first batch (without the issues) was for jtf... and i said ive never heard of the issues with the civilian ones.

Which means from your own account, you have no experience with the rifles i was talking about... and here you are calling the gun plumbers of the CAF clowns over an issue on a batch of guns you clearly have no experience either first or second hand with. so whos the blow hard?
 
LordEvilPepper said:
The irony of your statement lol

As the first batch (without the issues) was for jtf... and i said ive never heard of the issues with the civilian ones.

Which means from your own account, you have no experience with the rifles i was talking about... and here you are calling the gun plumbers of the CAF clowns over an issue on a batch of guns you clearly have no experience either first or second hand with. so whos the blow hard?
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You have no experience with any PGW rifle and only go bye what youve heard. At least Ive owned one and shot many others. I never said I had no experience with military issued PGWs. Your the one who said I didnt. So apparently your also a mind reader as well as a blowhard. Apparently reading comprehension is
not your strong point either. Where did I state the "Gun plumbers" are clowns? I stated the ones that have never owned one are the clowns. Dont see you mentioning any first hand experience but just hearsay from ur good buddy! Didnt see any response to all the rifles firing three 5 shot groups at 300 and being witnessed and passed by DND and then the Govt gets them and as you say they dont group. This thread is as full of S--t as our government. Oh have a merry christmas
 
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I remember when I was in Army , I never was happy and complain all day ,everything , everywhere and...

sophistry all day ,

" oh , you know ?! I have a friend he is in army , making weapons and he said this product is not good , oh yea " LOL
called " appeal to authority fallacy ". with what you have said you are not getting a true conclusion ,

I think your pocket cant afford and jealousy is blowing your mind up when you see others ppl photos over here.
work on yourself buddy.
 
Longstud said:
You have no experience with any PGW rifle and only go bye what youve heard. At least Ive owned one and shot many others. I never said I had no experience with military issued PGWs. Your the one who said I didnt. So apparently your also a mind reader as well as a blowhard. Apparently reading comprehension is
not your strong point either. Where did I state the "Gun plumbers" are clowns? I stated the ones that have never owned one are the clowns. Dont see you mentioning any first hand experience but just hearsay from ur good buddy! Didnt see any response to all the rifles firing three 5 shot groups at 300 and being witnessed and passed by DND and then the Govt gets them and as you say they dont group. This thread is as full of S--t as our government. Oh have a merry christmas
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once again, you have no experience with the rifles in talking about. and i never said the civilian ones had issues, only latter army ones.
yes you called the weapons techs clowns .. because fun fact... they don't own the rifles, they only work on them lol.
Where did I state the "Gun plumbers" are clowns? I stated the ones that have never owned one are the clowns.
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the guns came in failing grouping tests. with ball ammo and comercial. the problem was located, the barrels were re indexed and like magic... they passed grouping tests.
they went through war stock located rifles with the same issue and corrected those ones to... he had to cut and re index dozens if barrels along side a few other weapons techs.
im sure anyone with rceme drimis access could verify those work orders. gun plumbers dont do this work unless it is absolutely required... not enough time or money.
 
Longstud said:
Its taken you since December of last year to come up with a reply? Wow. Or have you heard more stories for the rest of us to hear. ZZZzzz IGNORE LIST WELCOMES YOU Just in case you havent actually seen one I thought Id be nice and show you mine!.View attachment 673084View attachment 673085
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ive seen more of them then you have.
also the thread was burried i missed the "reply"
nice to see another good ad hominem attack rather then put anything meaningful into the conversation because you cant admit that your (good) experience with one rifle doesnt at all equate to a conversation about dozens of military contract rifles with a specific issue. keeps life intresting

for the record, my shop was 75 feet from the weapons shop. you know, were they serviced and fixed the rifles.

also ill state again, the problem was limited to latter military production riffles, not civilian market ones.
 
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