SHTF : Why AR's ?

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w squared, very interesting response. You know that in my neck of the woods that there is at least 1 tree every 10 miles or so (if your lucky)!! Thats probably why I have a cat, as a dog would go crazy out here. :):):)

My experience up north (Alaska) has shown me that the early AR's didn't cut it, yet at -35F, M1 Garands actually did work. There is a very good reason the Canadian Rangers are still issued the Lee Enfield #4 Mk 1. I had the privilege of carrying a C1A1 for 13 years, and the disappointment of carrying the C7 for 15 years.
Take a trip down to Lethbridge where the wind hits up to 50-70 kph and see if the .224 bullet outpreforms the .308. Next month I'm planning on shooting in Shilo with the Garand, and everyone tells me I can expect -25C. I expect the Garand to work, if it doesn't I'll pass it on.

Back to marksmanship, I will admit that the average (and I stress average) person that calls themselves a hunter/shooter these days is lucky if they can hit the broad side of a barn door past 200 yds these days. Some of us here are not in that category.

Ground line is that you must look at your personal situation, geographical location, annual temperature fluctuations, amount of practice and level of preparation that you are willing to partake in, when you make your choice in firearm.
 
45ACPKING said:
Well... the SHTF lockbox contains
2 - D model SKS with 5 back up riveted 30 mag rounds each
box of spare parts and sks specific tools
1- Winchester model 70, 7mm rem mag, classic stainless in syntetic stock for reachin out there
1 - remington tactical 870 express magnum
2- 1911 .45 autos with 5 mags each
1- shorty m14s pistol gripped, adjustable length stock and 6 mags.
ammo to feed the lot for extended durations
and a big ass very sharp knife :D

bring on the zombie hordes :50cal:

oh... and i'll keep my 8 1/2" tuned AR for if all the above breaks ;)
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Impressive inventory, hope you're pick-up truck doesn't run out of gas, then you'll have to carry all of those manually to the fort :D
 
Garand said:
Always an interesting subject when you are sitting around with the guys choking back a couple of wet ones. For those of us who were alive at the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis, this was a very serious topic at the time. It arose again just before y2k. Just before "y2k" I had a friend show me the article by Kurt Saxon, called "Fantasy & Weaponry" (http: // www.kurtsaxon.com/defense001.htm). Very interesting, while you might find his choices aren't for everyone, the article is worth reading.
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Saxon makes some pretty reasonable-sounding points, but I have some issues with the following:

"If the victim is hit by three Single 0 buckshot pellets it is the same as if he had been hit by nine .30 caliber Carbine rounds."

Highly debateable, methinks.
 
Garand said:
I personally don't believe that you need 3,300 rds to be prepared. If you need that many rds to stay alive, you are obviously doing something wrong! Just my humble opinion.
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for the last time, the 3300 rounds is for extended SHTF

didn't say I needed that many but why not have more than you need?
 
As far as M1 vs. M14 vs. 870 vs. Boltgun vs. AR...what is the correct choice will depend on where you are and the situation. An AR sits comfortably in the middle of that spectrum...while not the best choice for every given situation, it is at least useful in the vast majority of situations, and downright good in many. That's why it's a sound SHTF choice.
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That's about the best summation I've read here yet....

NS
 
mel-gibson-mad-max-photograph-c10104041.jpeg


12 Guage worked for Mel
 
Matt_P said:
for the last time, the 3300 rounds is for extended SHTF

didn't say I needed that many but why not have more than you need?
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I agree 100%. You can never have too much ammo. You don't have to use it for it to be valuable. Think of the trade/barter value of quality ammunition during a SHTF event.

TDC
 
Watch This

The entire series is wonderful, but start watching this segment at 3:15.

It's a very sobering (and very true) interpretation of what this thread is talking about, right up to the trigger pull.

In a real SHTF scenario, most folks will never meet the truly prepared, they will have died long before they ever get that opportunity.
 
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That was a great little video.

I've neglected to learn to plow but I'd like to think I could figure it out or have one of the old timers show me. Then again, my plan has access to gasoline. :D
 
"I know it is hard to believe that glamor weapons with all their sound and fury, are more hype than effect. However, if one of their proud owners has it out with any practiced hunter with any rifle, the hunter will win."

Ha, Id like to see 8 hunters with bolt rifles go up against an Infantry section:rolleyes:.
 
Garand said:
w squared, very interesting response. You know that in my neck of the woods that there is at least 1 tree every 10 miles or so (if your lucky)!! Thats probably why I have a cat, as a dog would go crazy out here. :):):)

My experience up north (Alaska) has shown me that the early AR's didn't cut it, yet at -35F, M1 Garands actually did work. There is a very good reason the Canadian Rangers are still issued the Lee Enfield #4 Mk 1. I had the privilege of carrying a C1A1 for 13 years, and the disappointment of carrying the C7 for 15 years.
Take a trip down to Lethbridge where the wind hits up to 50-70 kph and see if the .224 bullet outpreforms the .308. Next month I'm planning on shooting in Shilo with the Garand, and everyone tells me I can expect -25C. I expect the Garand to work, if it doesn't I'll pass it on.

Back to marksmanship, I will admit that the average (and I stress average) person that calls themselves a hunter/shooter these days is lucky if they can hit the broad side of a barn door past 200 yds these days. Some of us here are not in that category.

Ground line is that you must look at your personal situation, geographical location, annual temperature fluctuations, amount of practice and level of preparation that you are willing to partake in, when you make your choice in firearm.
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I think we're on the same wavelength, Garand. What neither of us has mentioned is that the best weapon for each of us is the weapon that WORKS for each of us...the one that makes sense ergonomically, the one that feels right in our hands. This has a big effect on how well we can employ the system. This is also influenced to a large degree by our frame of reference...and the rifle that was in our hands the first time we felt that adrenalin rush when leading a textbook perfect section attack :evil:

I also expect that your Garand will hum along just fine in -25...as will many other properly maintained and operated rifles.

I will absolutely agree that a 30-06 or a .308 will do better in a strong wind that 5.56 or .223. That's a no-brainer. As the range starts creeping up, the effect of that crosswind will be magnified...and I'm more than willing to admit the superiority of the heavier rounds at longer ranges. The 5.56mm is at it's best under 300 meters.

I'll also add one little tidbit. There are a few important considerations for the Ranger's use of the Lee Enfield that are not significant in most people's SHTF rifle choice.

1. Minimal maintenance. Many of their rifles are strapped to skidoos/boats/quads for fairly long periods of time with little or no attention paid to them.

2. Surplus availability. Given that the CF needs to fight tooth and nail for every dollar in their budget, new rifles for the Rangers are not near the top of the list.

3. Control. The nature of the beast with the Rangers is that the weapons are issued and then left with the Rangers (part-time soldiers) for long periods of time regardless of whether they're out on exercise. Not something that the government wants to do with a full-auto capable C7. (Let's not get into a Swiss debate here :))

4. Hunting. The .223 is not a suitable round for seals and/or caribou hunting or polar bear defense. While the .303 isn't ideal for all of these applications, it'll probably work.

If I lived in Inuvik, I probably wouldn't choose an AR as my SHTF weapon.
 
w squared said:
4. Hunting. The .223 is not a suitable round for seals and/or caribou hunting or polar bear defense. While the .303 isn't ideal for all of these applications, it'll probably work.

If I lived in Inuvik, I probably wouldn't choose an AR as my SHTF weapon.
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If you lived in Inuvik, would you really notice if TSHTF? Would you even care? I imagine your life would humm along pretty nicely still.
 
KevinB said:
FYI - I plan on burning Toronto at my first chance when SHTF ;)
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Have you forgotten rule 1 of the general rules for this site?

In a SHTF situation, I would think that we would be too busy protecting our own families to go off and wipe out an entire city. If Toronto is as bad as you say, I'm sure it will destroy itself before you get there.
 
Interesting read so far..with 1:7 twist barrel, you can still fire some heavy load for a .22 thus fair for smaller game & deer + maybe more.
I still vote for the AR.
 
CNADNSL8-5 said:
Have you forgotten rule 1 of the general rules for this site?

In a SHTF situation, I would think that we would be too busy protecting our own families to go off and wipe out an entire city. If Toronto is as bad as you say, I'm sure it will destroy itself before you get there.
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KevinB has the power to protect his family AND destroy cities on a whim. Behold the power of the B.
 
Interesting thread...

I have an Argentinian friend in his 30s who I'm pretty sure was there during the crash, so I'm going to ask him about his experiences.

Although Greentips is being facetious, he has a point about how you shouldn't spend all your money and energy preparing for SHTF at the cost of enjoying your non-SHTF life. I'll buy some stuff, but most of my cash is sitting in the bank/mutual funds for my future. And perhaps this seems defeatist, but scratching out a painful, cold existence in any long term SHTF situation doesn't seem like the happiest thing to look forward to. But it is good to try and prepare for anything that can be lived through where order will eventually be restored.

Another point I want to agree with is that it is difficult to seriously prepare for this sort of thing when you live in a small and/or rented place.
 
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