Sig Cqb

[dangertree]

IMHO the ###iest 'black rifle' on the market in Canada.

Congrats to you lucky buggers and good on TSE for bringing them in!

 

[Bartledan]

i have 1, and its DEFINITELY THE MOST ACCURATE CARBINE out there, i can shoot a quarter inch group, rapid fire @ 25 yards, and yes people do get jealous of the way i shoot, but then again i went to blackwater

Sure you can, sparky.

 

[Six Star]

i have 1, and its DEFINITELY THE MOST ACCURATE CARBINE out there, i can shoot a quarter inch group, rapid fire @ 25 yards, and yes people do get jealous of the way i shoot, but then again i went to blackwater

 

[Big_Red]

The 552 may be a short & accurate weapon, but it is not reliable.

I've never had a stoppage with mine, but I have seen several weapons have catastrophic failures. That's enough reason for me to stop carrying it.

The failures include such minor issues as bent return springs, broken return spring rods, bolt carrier broken in half, gas tube sheared in half, etc. Not what is expected out of a $1800 USD weapon.

The B&T Rail system for the 552 is not worth buying, but is almost neccessary as the handguards overheat after only a few magazines. It does not lock in positively enough to mount optics or IR accessories.

 

[cqbservices]

The 552 may be a short & accurate weapon, but it is not reliable.

I've never had a stoppage with mine, but I have seen several weapons have catastrophic failures. That's enough reason for me to stop carrying it.

The failures include such minor issues as bent return springs, broken return spring rods, bolt carrier broken in half, gas tube sheared in half, etc. Not what is expected out of a $1800 USD weapon.

The B&T Rail system for the 552 is not worth buying, but is almost neccessary as the handguards overheat after only a few magazines. It does not lock in positively enough to mount optics or IR accessories.

That is very interesting your experiences with the Sig 552, I have had the full-auto guns and never experienced any breakages whatsoever, my personal gun has digest in access of 6000rds and it has never missed a beat, and any Sigs sold to police depatments have had no issues when it came to wear or breakage of parts, please pm me off line as I would like further details on these malfunctions.

 

[redleg]

The 552 may be a short & accurate weapon, but it is not reliable.

I've never had a stoppage with mine, but I have seen several weapons have catastrophic failures. That's enough reason for me to stop carrying it.

The failures include such minor issues as bent return springs, broken return spring rods, bolt carrier broken in half, gas tube sheared in half, etc. Not what is expected out of a $1800 USD weapon.

The B&T Rail system for the 552 is not worth buying, but is almost neccessary as the handguards overheat after only a few magazines. It does not lock in positively enough to mount optics or IR accessories.

Funny, we supply parts for a company in Iraq that uses the guns, and they don't seem to have the same issues. No major part replacements, just cocking handles, firing pins etc.
As well, I don't think you will find a 8" 5.56mm gun that does not get very hot on FA after several mags. The G36K certainly does not fare better.

 

[teddy49]

Funny, we supply parts for a company in Iraq that uses the guns, and they don't seem to have the same issues. No major part replacements, just cocking handles, firing pins etc.
As well, I don't think you will find a 8" 5.56mm gun that does not get very hot on FA after several mags. The G36K certainly does not fare better.

Actually, Big Red and I both work for that company. And these are the problems that we've had. The worst part is that we don't have many rounds through these weapons. I'm positive that I have more rounds through my personal Black Special than any 2 of our 552s here in Iraq.

That's a broken 552 bolt carrier. The roll pin has been removed and the piston has been rotated to show the damage to the mating shoulder

this is the bolt carrier mating shoulder from that same piston close up.

This is the broken Recoil spring guide out of another weapon.

You can see how much of a beating it's taken in this shot.

This is the bolt carrier mating shoulder out of the same weapon that the broken spring guide came out of. It's obviously not as bad as the first one, but it's still taken a hell of a beating.

In addition to this, we've had the rivet that holds on the cocking handle spring catch break and fall off. So there was nothing to hold the cocking handle in. 1800 rifle sidelined for a part that's probably not worth 2 cents.

On another weapon we had the roll pin that holds the piston to the bolt carrier work out the right side of the carrier and bind up the action.

We've had some Croatian and Radway Green ammo put through these, and when we had our firing pin issues it was with this ammo. But the vast majority of what we shoot is Lake City stamped M855.

To be fair other entities in country are using different versions, like the 551 and they don't seem to be having the difficulties that we are. As far as I can tell these problems seem to be confined to the 552 series. But my scope is limited to what I see. I've got a Black Special and what ever Swiss Arms calls the 551 at home, and they both work flawlessly, no complaints at all. But after seeing this I'm wondering if the almost 7k I've got invested in these things might have been better spent elsewhere.

Has anyone with a CQB had any problems like these?

 

[Kampfhamster]

As said before in another thread, my 552 had a broken extractor, even though it had less rounds through it then my issued 550.

Reason enough to stay away from the 552. Never heard of a single problem with the 550 or 551. Looks like SAN has messed up this job.

 

[redleg]

Actually, Big Red and I both work for that company. And these are the problems that we've had. The worst part is that we don't have many rounds through these weapons. I'm positive that I have more rounds through my personal Black Special than any 2 of our 552s here in Iraq.

That's a broken 552 bolt carrier. The roll pin has been removed and the piston has been rotated to show the damage to the mating shoulder

this is the bolt carrier mating shoulder from that same piston close up.

This is the broken Recoil spring guide out of another weapon.

You can see how much of a beating it's taken in this shot.

This is the bolt carrier mating shoulder out of the same weapon that the broken spring guide came out of. It's obviously not as bad as the first one, but it's still taken a hell of a beating.

In addition to this, we've had the rivet that holds on the cocking handle spring catch break and fall off. So there was nothing to hold the cocking handle in. 1800 rifle sidelined for a part that's probably not worth 2 cents.

On another weapon we had the roll pin that holds the piston to the bolt carrier work out the right side of the carrier and bind up the action.

We've had some Croatian and Radway Green ammo put through these, and when we had our firing pin issues it was with this ammo. But the vast majority of what we shoot is Lake City stamped M855.

To be fair other entities in country are using different versions, like the 551 and they don't seem to be having the difficulties that we are. As far as I can tell these problems seem to be confined to the 552 series. But my scope is limited to what I see. I've got a Black Special and what ever Swiss Arms calls the 551 at home, and they both work flawlessly, no complaints at all. But after seeing this I'm wondering if the almost 7k I've got invested in these things might have been better spent elsewhere.

Has anyone with a CQB had any problems like these?

OK, well you mentioned catastrophic failures. These aren't. If you need carriers, rivets, springs or guides, order them. This is like saying an M16 is no good because small parts break, if the armorers don't stock parts everything comes to a halt pretty quickly. I do admit that the 552 is not as durable as the 550/551, but it does take more of a beating because it is smaller. If you compare it to the other small systems out there, it usually outlasts them. The OPP trials found them to be as durable as the C8.

 

[OZZ]

Hmmmm , I have no where the amount of rounds through mine as you guys do but maybe these are not as tough and well thought out as the other 55x line.
Maybe the full auto,millitary ammo and non-neutered mags lead to faster breakdowns with these.
The only problem I see is the rubber dust covers are weak/brittle and the recoil spring guide needs some kind of a buffer and some way to hold it in place when you take the upper off boooiinngggggg it goes flying off when you forget to hold it

It`s still the show stopper tho......

 

[sigger69]

I'm wondering why rifle designs don't incorporate buffers more. Doesn't it make sense to not have parts getting battered?

Plus, why didn't SAN design the upper rear to have some slots or other retaining mechanism to keep the recoil guide rod from shooting out as OZZ mentioned?

 

[redleg]

I'm wondering why rifle designs don't incorporate buffers more. Doesn't it make sense to not have parts getting battered?

Plus, why didn't SAN design the upper rear to have some slots or other retaining mechanism to keep the recoil guide rod from shooting out as OZZ mentioned?

Very good questions and it has been pointed out to them in the past. The big new change is that the spring guide is plastic so it doesn't travel as far.

 

[kirill]

Are the receivers in all swiss rifles stamped? How do they hold up to higher pressures and greater forces due to short barrels?
ETA: Is it possible to get a breakdown of stamped/forged and metal/polymer parts?

 

[capp325]

Actually, Big Red and I both work for that company. And these are the problems that we've had. The worst part is that we don't have many rounds through these weapons. I'm positive that I have more rounds through my personal Black Special than any 2 of our 552s here in Iraq.

That's a broken 552 bolt carrier. The roll pin has been removed and the piston has been rotated to show the damage to the mating shoulder

this is the bolt carrier mating shoulder from that same piston close up.

This is the broken Recoil spring guide out of another weapon.

You can see how much of a beating it's taken in this shot.

This is the bolt carrier mating shoulder out of the same weapon that the broken spring guide came out of. It's obviously not as bad as the first one, but it's still taken a hell of a beating.

In addition to this, we've had the rivet that holds on the cocking handle spring catch break and fall off. So there was nothing to hold the cocking handle in. 1800 rifle sidelined for a part that's probably not worth 2 cents.

On another weapon we had the roll pin that holds the piston to the bolt carrier work out the right side of the carrier and bind up the action.

We've had some Croatian and Radway Green ammo put through these, and when we had our firing pin issues it was with this ammo. But the vast majority of what we shoot is Lake City stamped M855.

To be fair other entities in country are using different versions, like the 551 and they don't seem to be having the difficulties that we are. As far as I can tell these problems seem to be confined to the 552 series. But my scope is limited to what I see. I've got a Black Special and what ever Swiss Arms calls the 551 at home, and they both work flawlessly, no complaints at all. But after seeing this I'm wondering if the almost 7k I've got invested in these things might have been better spent elsewhere.

Has anyone with a CQB had any problems like these?

The broken parts in the pictures look practically brand new. Can you provide an estimated number of rounds that went through those guns prior to the breakages?

 

[Cocked&Locked]

The OPP trials found them to be as durable as the C8.

That dosen't totally fill me with re-assurance

 

[Big_Red]

The weapons have a very low round count. Most of them would be under a few thousand rounds. This is not confined to a specific batch of 552s as another MNFI unit has brought us several for servicing that have the same failures. Their weapons have even less use than ours. The only broken 551 they've brought in was missing it's extractor, not a big deal.

I consider these failures unacceptable when the rifles get so little use. There is no reason for a bolt carrier to break after *maximum* a few thousand rounds.

 

[McCoy]

Is Swiss Arms aware of the problem yet?

.

 

[redleg]

Is Swiss Arms aware of the problem yet?

.

Exactly, if the guns are as new as indicated they are under warranty.

I'll post pics of the OPP trial rifle bolt, it saw a documented 5,000rds and is in perfect condition. It appears to me that the battering of the bolt indicated above was caused by operating the gun after the guide rod broke. It isn't a failure in isolation.
I am trying not to sound like a Swiss Arms shill here, but perhaps a better inspection and repair program should be looked at. No matter what system you operate, parts will need to be replaced and if you wait till they fail, it can put you in a pretty bad spot. I am not suggesting that parts should be failing at 3,000-5,000 rds, but it can happen with any system.

 

[redleg]

http://www.theshootingedge.com/gallery/album02/SG552_bolt


Here is a bolt from the OPP trial rifle. Each gun fired approx 5,000rds. There were no parts failures.

 

[Big_Red]

The guide rod failure was unrelated to the broken bolt carrier. To clarify, the broken guide rods & springs were on different weapons. I've seen worse than the pics above on other MNFI unit's 552s but haven't bothered to take pics. Guide rod ends completely smashed and the spring folded in half.

I witnessed the bolt carrier break on the Sig and it took some time to remove it from the weapon afterwards as it was siezed inside. The failure happened on a grouping shoot (not rapid fire). The weapon had an extremely low round count.

The Sig warranty is almost irrelevant here. Maybe *we* could get something done, but it would be pretty much impossible for the local units using the Sig series like SWAT. They'll just have to cannibalize their broken ones.