Single Stack Division Caliber

.45 vs .40 for Single Stack Division ?

  • .45

    Votes: 44 73.3%

  • .40

    Votes: 16 26.7%
  • Total voters
    60
Freedom Ventures said:
40 - cheaper and easier to obtain ammo - you'll get more ammo downrange and more ammo downrange will make you a better competitor.

Also, I'm guessing that if IPSC implements the box for thier "single stack" division, it won't be long before someone figures out how to fit 10 rounds in a mag and still fit in the box. 10 40 cal rounds are 4.23", and my STI 45ACP mags are 4.7". Lots of room for innovation there.
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Why would you want to shoot .40 Minor?
 
John in B.C. said:
Sidelines?

You do realize that the plan is to introduce a new division for single stack guns...right?

John
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Single Stack is pretty much irrelevant in Canada. We're already limited to 10 rounds in Standard Division. Are you guys really that excited about shooting a Division where the only real differentiator from Standard (at least in Canada) is the size of the magwell :confused:

It's just one more way of watering down Standard Division.

Right up there with IPSC Airsoft...IMHO :cool:
 
Snowboy said:
I'm just asking !!!

I can live with the fact that you're stronger than me but I don't like the part where people are scratching the concrete to pick the .45 brass as if it was gold :D
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If 45 is gold then 38 supercomp is platinum!!

Achètes un lot de 1000 once fired brass de Marstar et ça va durer très longtemps. Tu perds rien en pratiquant et environ 10% dans les matchs.
 
I talked to quite a few competitors at the US nationals last year and there was a strong feeling that for the courses of fire at Area and local matches the higher capacity of the 9 would be an advantage. For the Single Stack nationals where the courses of dire are designed around the 1911 it is more advantageous to go major.
With our courses of fire where we see lots of unloaded starts and 8 and 9 round strings the advantage goes to the 10 round guns, with more varied courses of fire like you see in the US it is a bit more even. Since the serious Single Stack guys will be going to the SS Nationals it makes sense to use the same gun throughout the season.
Single Stack rules stipulate 8 rounds for major, 10 rounds minor. So it doesn't matter if you get a 10 round .40 mag, you won't be allowed to use it. As long as the world body doesn't screw up the rules it should be the same when they adopt it.

Aqualung said:
9mm would mean 'Minor' so let's see if yours is a common opinion.

At last year's Single Stack Nationals, barely 13.5 % (37 of 274 shooters) shot Minor.

http://www.uspsa.org/mr/stage_display.php?year=2010&match=2010_Single_Stack_Nationals&dir=Single_Stack&file=Pistol_Finals.dat

(and of those that show 'Minor' on the final results, some may have declared 'Major' but chrono'd 'Minor'. I don't have visibility on those stats)


Of the five GMs, all shot Major. Of the top ten finishers, only one shot Minor (B.J. Norris) and he came in sixth. Of the top five competitors shooting Minor, they came in 6th, 13th, 26th, 59th and 68th. So shooting 1911-9mm is hardly a 'winning setup'.

Of the 8 Area Matches conducted last year, the ratio of Single Stack competitors shooting Minor are similar (or worse):


Area 1 - 2 of 22 (9%) both of which were DQ'd
Area 2 - 7 of 43 (16%) with the top Minor shooter finishing 6th
Area 3 - 0 of 22
Area 4 - 0 of 13
Area 5 - 5 of 40 (12.5%) with the top Minor shooter finishing 20th.
Area 6 - 3 of 31 (9.6%) with the top Minor shooter finishing 5th. (Julie Golob)
Area 7 - 2 of 14 (14.3%) with the top Minor shooter finishing 2nd.
Area 8 - Can't find the data.

I guess in Single Stack 'capacity' isn't all it's cracked up to be.
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So .40 major appears to be the way to go via IPSC sanctioned SS division....1 or 2 extra rounds would be a good safety buffer for make up shots,..triple taps for coolness, etc..
Plus brass is cheaper than .45....I think I will go with a .40.
So if I compete in UPSA I would just load 8rds...
 
Seems to me that if you want to shoot .40 get a 2011 and go play standard division. you want to shoot SS get a 1911 and that just naturally has to be a .45 :))

Just my .02

Cheers
 
John in B.C. said:
Sidelines?

You do realize that the plan is to introduce a new division for single stack guns...right?

John
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Yes. You do realize that when IPSC started, the Colt 1911 pattern, single stack .45, was THE gun to use right? So now we need a special division for it? That's what I mean by it being relegated to the sidelines, (for the last few years). I'll be gladly competing in Single Stack if it ever comes to pass. Oh, and it will be in 9mm minor, and I will still beat guys with .45's and .40's shooting major.

:stirthepot2:
 
Aqualung said:
Area 1 - 2 of 22 (9%) both of which were DQ'd
Area 2 - 7 of 43 (16%) with the top Minor shooter finishing 6th
Area 3 - 0 of 22
Area 4 - 0 of 13
Area 5 - 5 of 40 (12.5%) with the top Minor shooter finishing 20th.
Area 6 - 3 of 31 (9.6%) with the top Minor shooter finishing 5th. (Julie Golob)
Area 7 - 2 of 14 (14.3%) with the top Minor shooter finishing 2nd.
.
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Thanks for that info, never saw it before

PH Racing said:
It has been working very well in the US
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Those numbers above aren't indicative of Single Stack "working very well".

To me, they're indicative of a lot of effort for little result.
Considering our population compared to the USA, if what's been going on there is an indication, Quigley's argument makes a lot of sense.

Quigley said:
...It's just one more way of watering down Standard Division....
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Considering they were getting 30 to 40 shooters at some of those matches I think they are doing fairly wel and the SS Nationals is becoming a big match, this year it's expected to be full and they had to go to a slot system to deal with the number of shooters who want to attend. Sounds like it's doing well to me.
 
Aqualung said:
I seem to remember similar comments 8 to 10 years ago about Production Division.;)
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No, there were no such arguments in 1999 at the General Assembly in Cebu. We knew that it would flourish given time, all that was needed to work out was semantics. This isn't so clear.

PH Racing said:
SS Nationals is becoming a big match,
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The Single Stack Nationals is a separate match from the others where no one has to choose what division they are going to shoot. Nothing like it will happen anywhere else in IPSC if SS is approved, so it cannot be used as any form of comparison. You might as well be using the Bianchi Cup or Steel Challenge as an example.

Those Area statistics are the significant indicators, and look to be showing a maximum participation of 10-13% in SS; that is after SS has existed in the USA for a while.

Show me where a USPSA match which has Open and Limited and Production at it showing growth because of Single Stack and I'll happily change my mind.

I'm on the fence - One week - I like the idea, the next I don't. The right data to show adding Single Stack to our sport will make me a proponent, but data like from those area matches pushes me the other way.
 
Freedom Ventures said:
No, there were no such arguments in 1999 at the General Assembly in Cebu.
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I was referring to talk amongst members in Canada, not the GA.


Freedom Ventures said:
Those Area statistics are the significant indicators, and look to be showing a maximum participation of 10-13% in SS; that is after SS has existed in the USA for a while.
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Re-read my post. The percentages I cite are for Minor shooters within Single Stack Division; not percentages for Single Stack Shooters within the match as a whole.
 
Aqualung said:
Re-read my post. The percentages I cite are for Minor shooters within Single Stack Division;
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Re-read your own post.
You state how many shooters participated in single stack division at each Area match.
(those would be the larger value numbers in your post that you used to get the %s for your major-minor data... :p)

Please do tell me how you know the questions on the tips of tongues of all of the IPSC shooters in Canada in 1999 with regards to the acceptance of production division?
I don't remember the name "Aqualung" when we did roll call at the NEC meetings back then.
 
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