Sk trespass law being changed; just a heads up

[Kelly Timoffee]

Hunting is a privilege, treat it as such or lose more benefits.

How is this thread still going on is my big question now.

Just watch, people keep pushing and it will be hunting on crown land only one day.

 

[BrotherRockeye]

Not from the city, don't have any issue with farmers. At is the biggest part of our economy and employs tons of people indirectly and adds to the provincial coffers.

I don't like people saying you should pay for what you use when they can't pay for what they use. Infrastructure is damn expensive so it's cost is spread out across society as it benefits everyone even if they don't use it. If you want people to pay for what they use only a select few can afford it and everyone else suffers. It's easy to say go pay for what you use when others have funded and built up what you use over the last 100 years.

you mean like paying school tax on thousands of acres of farm land but not having any children, or any children in school?

 

[BrotherRockeye]

Farmers pay taxes, and crown corp bills. Everyone pays the same for a sasktel bill for the same service. The farmers bill is lower because the city folk pay more than they would. Its balanced out to give us a first world standard of living instead of a bunch if isolated people that need to fork over a million dollars to get cell service in their area.

Farmers bill is lower? The same phone that cost me $35/month in the city cost me $75 at the farm, before long distance. Sasktel charged me an extra $40 month for service outside of a 40 mile radius of a major center for decades when I still had a land line. iirc they called it the 40/40 mileage cap or some bs.

 

[BrotherRockeye]

Yep. Don't want people on your land, get off your a$$ and post it.

That is so backwards it's mind boggling.

How bout, want permission to hunt on my land, get off yer a$$ and ask for it.

I don't have to post my yard in the city yet I have the expectation, like everyone else, that I won't find people using it without asking.

 

[JRCS]

I don't think hunters realize that the game animals feed on farmland at the owners expense, not the crown's. Will Hunters pay for the feed that the game animals consume on private land? There are also soil borne disease that are spreading by contaminated soil being moved around on tires, and other equipment. Theses diseases can make the production of certain crops almost impossible once infected. Will hunters compensate farmers for the loss of 20 years worth of canola crops? In my RM, a person with a $500K lake front house pays $1000/per year in taxes to the RM. I pay almost $3000/per year for land valued the same. We pay are fair share of taxes to keep the little infrastructure we have. In Manitoba the rural RM's were forced to amalgamate with bankrupt villages, and cities to keep them going. Were subsidizing the urban population, not the other way round. In my area of Manitoba, hunters spend all summer terrifying the game animals by screaming around the area on quads, and jacked up trucks. Then the season opens, they do the same, and can't find any game to hunt. Once the snow is too deep for them to do that, the game animals comes out. But it's the farmers that are the reason why they can't find game on crown lands. The deer, elk, moose, and the coyotes just watch me as I work my land. It must be me the farmer that that's causing the lack of game.

 

[BrotherRockeye]

Go ahead, it's your land, I don't get upset when I see posted land, I avoid it. I also avoid most private land even if I have permission to stay away from road hunters.
The whole paying for what you use is what pisses me off as that's not how our society works. It's spread out over everyone even if you don't use it. Pretty sure if that's how it was the rurals would become a wasteland in the near future as population density goes down and the price of everything goes up.

That's how it is already, and has been for decades. Rural migration to the cities started a long time ago due to the lure of jobs and higher education. Country schools that used to be full are now gone and the few kids that remain in the country get bused to the closest town. Community halls that used to host dances and regular gatherings are closed because there aren't enough people to keep them alive. The farther you get from a major center the more expensive everything gets, from fuel to milk.
I've watched it happen. The future is now.

 

[skhunter]

LOL

Go ahead and walk us through how a hunter asking to use someones else's land is harming them but forcing land owners to post their land is not.

This should be good

Shawn

Doesn't harm me, but then I am not too lazy to post my land if hunters were actually causing a problem. Which we already have laws for.

Then again if my house caught fire I wouldn't just stand there shouting for the fire department.

But then again we all know this is all about gettin' muh respect.

 

[skhunter]

That is so backwards it's mind boggling.

How bout, want permission to hunt on my land, get off yer a$$ and ask for it.

I don't have to post my yard in the city yet I have the expectation, like everyone else, that I won't find people using it without asking.

Don't have to post my yard either.

 

[coyoteking]

Doesn't harm me, but then I am not too lazy to post my land if hunters were actually causing a problem. Which we already have laws for.

Then again if my house caught fire I wouldn't just stand there shouting for the fire department.

But then again we all know this is all about gettin' muh respect.

How will improving property rights laws increase the level of respect?

A better question- why do feel respect for landowners is unnecessary?

 

[jethunter]

LOL

You mean the thieves can now be charged with out having to be either told by the landowner they are trespassing and given a opportunity to leave or the land owner having to spend thousands of dollars to pre inform the thieve that he in fact does not own the land he knows he does not own.

Shawn

Thieves are already criminals. They didn't ask for permission to access your property to steal from you before, and they won't now either. That was the point that I made and that went over your head.

 

[dgl1948]

Rural migration to the cities started a long time ago due to the lure of jobs and higher education.

I think it had more to do with not being able to make a living off of smaller farms. If a person could make a good living off a couple quarters of land the migration to the cities would not have taken place.

 

[skhunter]

There will never be a hunter criminally charged under the new trespass law, only trespassers and poachers will be criminally charged.

Hunters are ethical, law abiding citizens who respect other people’s property and gain access to such property. Why would they become criminals for that? Your assertion is absurd.

How will improving property rights laws increase the level of respect?

A better question- why do feel respect for landowners is unnecessary?

You tell me.

 

[coyoteking]

You tell me.

I have no idea- it’s your premis. I’ve never heard another person frame the argument this way.

 

[dgl1948]

I don't think hunters realize that the game animals feed on farmland at the owners expense, not the crown's.

But remember a farmer is entitled to get crop damage from wildlife paid for from crop insurance. The farmer does not have to be enrolled in the crop insurance program to get this coverage and remember that 60 per cent of crop insurance premiums are subsidised from tax revenue.

I would also point out that there are enough road allowances (crown land) being cropped and pastured without any form of rent being paid that would more than cover all the wildlife damage in the province.

 

[skhunter]

I have no idea- it’s your premis. I’ve never heard another person frame the argument this way.

You brought it up in the previous thread. You said using the land without asking is disrespectful.

Who is being disrespected?

 

[coyoteking]

You brought it up in the previous thread. You said using the land without asking is disrespectful.

Who is being disrespected?

Using private land without permission is disrespectful.

Now stop dodging the question.

Why do you feel respect for landowners is unecessary?

 

[BrotherRockeye]

I think it had more to do with not being able to make a living off of smaller farms. If a person could make a good living off a couple quarters of land the migration to the cities would not have taken place.

Odd then that everyone made out fine until their kids left for the cities or oil patch jobs in search of something better.
My Grandfather raised a family with 6 kids on an owned 1/2 section and a couple rented ones. He had 4 sons and 2 daughters, all of who eventually left for the city. Not because staying on the farm wasn't viable, but because they could be educated and/or get jobs that paid more and live an easier life.
Mixed farming provided everything a family needed, and cash crops or livestock sales paid for the few things that had to be bought rather than produced at home. Cows, chickens, pigs, a huge garden, cereal and hay crops were the way of it and you helped your neighbors rather than asking the Gov't for help.
If I had more time I'd share my "conspiracy" theory about the planned exodus but I don't.

I guess we'll leave it at the chicken or egg debate for now.

 

[skhunter]

Using private land without permission is disrespectful.

Now stop dodging the question.

Why do you feel respect for landowners is unecessary?

As a landowner I don't feel disrespected by those who use my land without my permission.

Anybody who does damage is disrespectful but we already have laws for that.

 

[trevj]

But remember a farmer is entitled to get crop damage from wildlife paid for from crop insurance. The farmer does not have to be enrolled in the crop insurance program to get this coverage and remember that 60 per cent of crop insurance premiums are subsidised from tax revenue.

I would also point out that there are enough road allowances (crown land) being cropped and pastured without any form of rent being paid that would more than cover all the wildlife damage in the province.

I have seen Crop Damage claims be denied because the land owner refused to allow any hunting on his property. Outside Moose Jaw. He was told that he basically caused his own problem by refusing to allow folks in.

All any changes to the Trespass Act will do is make it so that the truck hunters and other slobs, will have to actually do some legwork.

My experience with asking for permission has been really positive. Funny enough, folks seem to like actually being asked permission, and generally they were really accommodating. A reference from one, usually got a fella in the door with many others.

Every Trespass Act I have read said, in one way or another, that it is not the owners responsibility to mark the property, but that the person wishing to use that property must be aware of where they are and whether they require permission. Used to be different, but many changes over time.

I figure that if a fella owns 20 square miles of property, or 20 square feet, he doesn't need to put signs up saying so. It's his. He owns it. Anyone else wanting the use of that land should bloody well ask. Same fella could put up signs saying hunting or other access is OK, and under what terms he wants, too, if he were so inclined. Eg: Park and Walk, or similar.

I have dealt with a few real prizes over the years. Latest was a couple months back. A couple parked in front of the No Trespassing Sign on one side of the road, then decided that because the gate was open, that they could wander freely through our property on the other side. The guy truly figured that the gate being open, and there not being a sign up, that he was free to wander in. He got really offended when I asked him if was always stupid, or if this was a new thing for him. Also told him that I didn't need a sign, as most folks that were not stupid, understood what a fence around a piece of property they did not own, signified.

 

[Dogleg]

Odd then that everyone made out fine until their kids left for the cities or oil patch jobs in search of something better.
My Grandfather raised a family with 6 kids on an owned 1/2 section and a couple rented ones. He had 4 sons and 2 daughters, all of who eventually left for the city. Not because staying on the farm wasn't viable, but because they could be educated and/or get jobs that paid more and live an easier life.
Mixed farming provided everything a family needed, and cash crops or livestock sales paid for the few things that had to be bought rather than produced at home. Cows, chickens, pigs, a huge garden, cereal and hay crops were the way of it and you helped your neighbors rather than asking the Gov't for help.
If I had more time I'd share my "conspiracy" theory about the planned exodus but I don't.

I guess we'll leave it at the chicken or egg debate for now.

Even if your grandfather (and mine, times 2) could make a good living for himself and his family off a small farm it doesn't follow that the same piece of dirt would support his 6 children through adulthood and their inevitable families. Most would have had to move on whether they wanted to or not. On a bigger scale Saskatchewan's population topped out at a million for decades, simply because there was no work for more. Our biggest export was working men.