SKS accuracy

Gatehouse

Gatehouse

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Well theother thread got locked before I could post this so I'll start another. Hopefully people can keep their schit together here for a bit before it gets locked.

I had a few groups at the range today- All new shooters- and as I mentioned before, they were able to hit a target at 100 yards pretty consistently- or at least come close.

After they were gone I decided to bench 2 SKS rifles. A stock Russian laminate and one with a tupperware stock and a cheesy Simmons 4x scope. Shooting was done with a setting sun making aiming on the target difficult.

First up was the scoped SKS using a silhouette target. Took 4 shots

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One was a flyer which I attributed to me not having a great POA in the bad light on the big monocolour target, so I put up a little round target I could see better and shot 3 shots

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This was better but with a better scope I know I could do better

Next was the Russian laminate

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I'm not a great shooter with iron sights as supplied on the SKS. In fact I pretty much hate them and can't see them very well. Maybe if I was younger and the light was better I would do better. But it was still 4 shots in a group that would certainly kill a deer. I doubt I could do much better with most 30-30 lever action rifles with issued "buckhorn" sights- Which I also hate. :)

Ammunition was Dominion Arms Ukranian stuff from Canada Ammo, that comes in 1000 lots for pretty cheap.

Frankly, I think both rifles could be more accurate with a better scope and iron sights I could use better. Hunting ammo might increase accuracy too.

Neither rifle has been cleaned in some time. Probably about 500 rounds through the scoped rifle since last cleaning. :)

Anyways, I would be fine pointing either of these rifles at a deer at 100 yards.
 
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Well, I have 5 of them. Iron-sighted, I suck. Used to be, I didn't. But nowadays, iron sights gotta be peep, or I can't seem 'em. I can't hold all three planes with these eyes anymore. That being said, I like accuracy. I haven't had an SKS in the past 30yrs that was ever more than a 4MOA rifle when I got it. And I STILL used it and none of the guys in my club bothered me about it.
I have since learned lots of tricks. Slip-on recoil pad. Past recoil shield or heavy jacket. Increases the LOP and makes it more accurate. Adding a scope. A little judicious shimming here and there. A little muzzle work.
The best part of the SKS is that it is cheap enough to allow you to practice methods of accurizing a rifle without ruining it. I mean, you CAN'T wreck this thing.
I have one with an ATI plastic stock, a comb riser, and a 3-6x scope. I have drilled the gas tube to lower blowback, reducing the slam it makes, effectively lowering recoil and the distance it moves from battery. I have counter-bored and re-crowned the muzzle. With its included recoil pad and extended LOP, for me it's less than a 2MOA rifle (not much, but a little) from the bench. I don't have a single one that is more than a 4 MOA rifle. That's as good as my dad and his .30-30. I have Lee Enfields that weren't that good when I got them, but they were used all the time by their owners. People who knew their guns.
 
An SKS fired from a benchrest is a measure of mechanical accuracy, and in terms of being a purveyor of big game, that accuracy proves to be good enough if not inspiring. The real question is how well a hunter might be able shoot one of those things in the field, given the (too) small stock dimensions for the majority of men having attained their 12th birthday, and the long creepy trigger. In a sport hunting scenario, where success or failure is weighed strongly upon the placement of the first shot, the attributes of the SKS's place it towards the back of the pack, and I don't care how cheap the ammo is. A fun toy that shoots fast at the range is one thing, a serious hunting tool is another. The CZ 527 is the correct answer for anyone who wishes to hunt with the 7.62X39 cartridge.

I hope the SKS isn't going to turn into a new monarch thing with you.:p The 60 year old battle carbine of the masses is hardly regal.
 
As I said on the other thread - I've never bothered to bench test SKS rifles much because I don't see the point, except maybe to adjust sights.

But I don't see much point in bench testing 30-30s and other milsurps that people hung with either. If you can consistently hit a deer kill zone target from 100 yards offhand with a rifle you are good to go. That's more important than 5 consecutive 5 shot groups. :)

PS I didn't wait one minute between shots or anything. :)
 
thepolinator said:
I would say if you can do that standing without a rest it would be good enough for deer at that distance; otherwise, look for another rifle.
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Kill zone on a deer is 3x the size of any of those groups. Any hit anywhere on that CanAmmo target will do in a deer and that's not difficult from standing after a bit of practice. Some of my first timers do it right away :)

Know your rifle and you will suceed. I've seen too many pics of dead animals shot with SKS rifles to believe it's impossible. :)
 
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I personaly won't hunt deer with an sks. It's not that I don't agree with it but has more do to with carrying it. They don't balance well. My last sks took 5 deer and a black bear that scared the crap out of my buddy over 2 hunting seasons. The ammo was prvi brand. Cheap sort points. Bone stock Russian 54 tula. He said ranges were 20-80 yards for the deer 20' for the bear.
A well placed first shot took each deer. He said he fired a second at each and 3 at one. Only 1 deer had 2 hits. The bear took 7 hits 5/5 and then 2 insurance shots. I gave him the gun after his first season using it.
When it comes to deer hunting in a center fire season ill take my 25/06 or 45/70 every time
I love the sks and have had many. Often I think about buying another for nothing more but knowing I own one.
I'd never tell someone they can't use a sks on deer. I may suggest another rifle or even loan them one of mine if they can't afford or don't have anything else

A small bolt action rifle with a 21" barrel and 3 shot blind mag with fancy grade walnut around 5-6 lbs with quality iron sights in 7.62/39. Oh ya I could go for that
 
Gatehouse said:
Kill zone on a deer is 3x the size of any of those groups. Any hit anywhere on that CanAmmo target will do in a deer and that's not difficult from standing after a bit of practice. Some of my first timers do it right away :)

Know your rifle and you will suceed. I've seen too many pics of dead animals shot with SKS rifles to believe it's impossible. :)
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That was pretty much my point in the last thread... Sorry bud, but those groups are brutal.... Take that group, take the rifle off the bench and into the woods and shoot it offhand, maybe after walking / hiking and with your heart pumping when you see a shooter deer and then show me what that group looks like....

That bottom target is what?.... a 4-6 inch circle.... and you only managed to hit it once in four shots.... from a bench, rested and controlling your breathing etc.....
 
Superbrad said:
That was pretty much my point in the last thread... Sorry bud, but those groups are brutal.... Take that group, take the rifle off the bench and into the woods and shoot it offhand, maybe after walking / hiking and with your heart pumping when you see a shooter deer and then show me what that group looks like....

That bottom target is what?.... a 4-6 inch circle.... and you only managed to hit it once in four shots.... from a bench, rested and controlling your breathing etc.....
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I agree. The SKS is an adequate tool for wounding soldiers. Period.
 
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Superbrad said:
That was pretty much my point in the last thread... Sorry bud, but those groups are brutal.... Take that group, take the rifle off the bench and into the woods and shoot it offhand, maybe after walking / hiking and with your heart pumping when you see a shooter deer and then show me what that group looks like....
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I've never shot a group at a deer, so what the group looks like from offhand is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the bullet hit the kill zone of a deer, and since the kill zone of a deer is 3x the size of any of those groups, once again, you have a dead deer. I've already explained several times that I have seen novices hit or come close to deer vital size targets very often. Anybody that wants to practice a bit with his SKS can make the proper hits.

That bottom target is what?.... a 4-6 inch circle.... and you only managed to hit it once in four shots.... from a bench, rested and controlling your breathing etc.....
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All that target shows is that I should probably move the sight a bit if I wanted to hunt with that rifle. Or remember to aim a little to the left. ;)

Remember the size of a deer kill zone. ANY hit ANYWHERE on that paper target is a kill shot. All 4 shots hit the kill zone.

Every year, hunters have gone out and killed deer with rifles that have the same or less accuracy than what is shown. Traditional rifles like 30-30's or the very common beat to heck 303 SMLE.

More commonly these days I see at the range the once a year to the range hunters with scoped modern rifles shooting groups that are the same or even bigger. Yet they still kill stuff. Even after hiking and with the heart pumping. How do they manage to pull this off? Animals are big and you don't need to be a sub MOA shooter with a sub MOA rifle to kill an animal.

People are hung up on group size these days. People think that anything more than a 1.5 " group at 100 yards = no good for hunting! Group size is fun enough I guess but to kill a deer at 100 yards you don't need a good group from a bench, you need 1 shot to a large target.
 
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It strikes me that the limiting factor (for me) is the SKS sights, and NOT it's inherent accuracy.

I put aperture sights on lever action rifles if I want to shoot them accurately. I see there are some aftermarket and home made peep sights for the SKS. I bet that would improve the SKS considerably.

The second group I shot with the scope (using an actual proper aiming point) demonstrates this pretty well, actually. It's a 2.6" group, and I know I could do better with a less cheesy scope. Even the iron sight group is under 3" (2.985" for 4 shots) ;) so it stands to reason that with better sights/scope the group size would improve.

I recall reading several old gun writers mentioning that "A rifle that groups 2" at 100 yards is a good accurate rifle" or words to that effect. I'm sure that many deer have died to rifles that group larger than 2.985" for 4 shots. :)

But yeah, if I had any real desire to hunt often with an SKS I'd probably get or make an aperture sight for it. Or put a better scope on the scoped one I own.
 
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Gatehouse said:
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I've never shot a group at a deer, so what the group looks like from offhand is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the bullet hit the kill zone of a deer, and since the kill zone of a deer is 3x the size of any of those groups, once again, you have a dead deer. I've already explained several times that I have seen novices hit or come close to deer vital size targets very often. Anybody that wants to practice a bit with his SKS can make the proper hits.
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The bottom group is at best a 4" group. That means that the first shot will fall somewhere within a 2" radius of the point of aim. Now take a rifle that is a proven one-holer, meaning that in effect the rifle shoots to exactly the point of aim every time. Take that rifle and shoot a group off hand at a paper plate ( roughly the size of deer's vital zone). Now take that group and draw a 4" circle around every bullet hole. That is the true accuracy potential under field conditions, not even taking into account the excitement of the hunt and buck fever. If you've shot a six-inch group with the one-hole rifle (which isn't bad, offhand, in spite of the internet), then your group with the four-inch rifle could possibly be as much as ten inches.

You could even run that test with one shot if it makes you happy. A better test would be to take one shot with the sks, at a paper plate under field conditions. If it hits paper, you have venison. If you miss, the deer gets away wounded. Move closer until you can hit the plate with every shot, and that's the maximum distance you should be shooting at, regardless of calibre or range.
 
Another simple test... put milk jugs at distance from 50 to 125yds.

Take 1 (one, singular, uno) shot at any jug. Put the rifle down, count to 20, pick it up and repeat with another jug. Repeat this process until all jugs have been engaged with 1 time. If they were filled with water, you will know your result the instant the gun goes bang.

Now go see what the results are.

if you can shoot, there will be a hole in all the jugs.

good enough.

Jerry
 
My calipers say the bottom 4 shot group is a 3" group, measured from 2 furthest bullet holes. :)

Standard size plates are 9-10" hmmmm :)

Wonder how many deer have been killed with rifles that group 3" for 4 shots at 100 yards ? Quite a few, I would guess.
 
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Super people can shoot really well on the internet but the average guy wouldn't do any better than that with an open sighted lever action 30-30, either. If one says that an open sighted SKS is unsuitable for deer then it follows that an iron sighted lever action 30-30 is unsuitable as well. And that's just hilarious.
 
Without a bench rest I can hit a 12x12 gong fairly well at 100 yards. I think a 125gr soft point is a bit on the light side for deer at further distances, but you don't need to shoot a 2 inch group to put one through the boiler maker.
 
jethunter said:
Super people can shoot really well on the internet but the average guy wouldn't do any better than that with an open sighted lever action 30-30, either. If one says that an open sighted SKS is unsuitable for deer then it follows that an iron sighted lever action 30-30 is unsuitable as well. And that's just hilarious.
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That's just crazy talk. Everyone knows all the 30-30s built in the last 100 years are sub MOA shooters right out of the box! :)
 
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