Small Base Dies?????

billbmcleod

billbmcleod

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I have never owned a small base die and I am not 100% sure what one is. I get the idea that they are just what they say and are a bit smaller at the opposite end than the neck.
I suspect that they do not form the case smaller than SAAMI specs but a few words could clear it up for everyone. Once I find out I will have to decide if I need one or not. If a lot more force is required from the press do I need to upgrade my 35 year old RCBS3.
 
Small base dies do size the brass a little smaller then regular dies. They are only really needed for semi-autos to ensure reliable extraction.
If your current reloads are working fine, you don't need them.
 
My take is that it is only an issue with RCBS dies. I theorize that RCBS leaves their standard dies a bit large for those who don't need their cases restored to minimum dimensions, then offers a supplementary "small base" set for those who do. Seems like a good way to make somebody buy two sets of dies, instead of just one. Just about every other brand simply makes their standard dies do the job properly.

Be aware that I am a confirmed RCBS-hater, so maybe that taints my point of view.
 
Hmm depends on what your shooting..semi or bolt or ...
I bought a bunch of brass And my regular dies would not do the job...it was fired out of a machine gun or a gun with really big chamber ...had to resize all with small base die ...then all went very smoothly
 
A small base die is a full length die made to SAAMI minimum. Whether you need that or not depends on a lot of things.

If your gunsmith thinks that cutting a chamber so short that regular dies won't size cases is doing you a favor you might need SB dies.

If you shoot autoloaders you probably don't need one because those chambers are typically huge. On the opposite tack, if you take cases fired in those huge chambers and try to size them down to fit in a snug chambered bolt gun you might.

If you like range pickups you might. If you want to use the same ammo in several rifles you might.

Many people will never need them. That doesn't mean nobody does.
 
There is even a step past "small base", if you play with belted cases. I was not convinced, until I suffered serious "sticker shock" at the price of Norma brand 300 Weatherby brass - ended up with 150 brass advertised as "once fired" - who really knows? But, not a single one would chamber in my bolt action rifle after full length sizing, I definitely had the RCBS Rockchucker press "camming over", so was getting every bit of sizing those dies could give. With Jiffy marker, discovered problem was about the 1/16" or so of an inch in front of the belt - was not being reduced, or if it was, it was springing back. So, gritted hard, and paid for a Larry Willis collet die - which only deals with that little bit ahead of the belt - that made all 150 Weatherby brass very usable - so that Larry Willis die paid for itself for me instead of having to buy 150 x new Norma 300 Weatherby brass. I would not recommend that you buy it until you need it - but when you need it, I could not find a single other thing that would do that job. Even has a nifty "plunk-in gauge" at the top of it to check whether that particular piece of brass needs the treatment or not. Also resolved a chambering issue with some previously fired 7mm Rem Mag brass that I re-formed into 7x61 brass - just a smidgeon little difference in chamber cut diameter - probably all within spec, but the re-formed stuff also would not chamber because of the wee little bit ahead of the belt.

Before I had the Larry Willis die, was trying to re-form my first batch of 7x61 - discovered my RCBS 338 Win Mag FL die would allow the cases to drop in to the belt - however my 458 Win Mag RCBS FL die would leave them about 3/8" proud of the belt - obviously different sizes in those dies - yet supposed to be the same - no doubt a min tolerance and a max tolerance, but the difference mattered on the Schultz and Larsen rifle we were trying to load for.

Just looked in the Die drawer - sizing dies for 24 different cartridges - RCBS, mostly, but also Lyman, Hornady, Lee - even a "Bonanza Bench Rest Set" for 308 Norma Mag (!!) Most all of my hunting rifles are bolt action - can not say that I have ever had a sizing issue, except as described above on belted cases.
 
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BattleRife said:
My take is that it is only an issue with RCBS dies. I theorize that RCBS leaves their standard dies a bit large for those who don't need their cases restored to minimum dimensions, then offers a supplementary "small base" set for those who do. Seems like a good way to make somebody buy two sets of dies, instead of just one. Just about every other brand simply makes their standard dies do the job properly.

Be aware that I am a confirmed RCBS-hater, so maybe that taints my point of view.
Click to expand...


Redding also make small base dies ......
 
I use RCBS Small Base dies for .308, 30-06, 300 WM and .223. I've had the three 30 cals for over 40 yrs! Back then, RCBS also made what they called Ultra Small Base dies, that were needed for Browning BAR's and levers....according to them!LOL!!
The .308's & 30-06's were autos and pumps. the .300 was a Browning BAR. They all needed small base dies to insure reliable chambering. Never had an extraction problem.
 
Oldrodder - was it always your own brass, previously fired in your rifles, that you were re-loading, or had you tried to reload brass that was previously fired fired in someone else's rifle? I do not see Small Base dies for 300 Win Mag any more - mostly why I was asking...
 
oldrodder said:
I use RCBS Small Base dies for .308, 30-06, 300 WM and .223. I've had the three 30 cals for over 40 yrs! Back then, RCBS also made what they called Ultra Small Base dies, that were needed for Browning BAR's and levers....according to them!LOL!!
The .308's & 30-06's were autos and pumps. the .300 was a Browning BAR. They all needed small base dies to insure reliable chambering. Never had an extraction problem.
Click to expand...

^
Small base dies are clearly recommended by Browning for BAR. That what I used when I started reloading for it from day 1. No issues at all.
 
Potashminer said:
Oldrodder - was it always your own brass, previously fired in your rifles, that you were re-loading, or had you tried to reload brass that was previously fired fired in someone else's rifle? I do not see Small Base dies for 300 Win Mag any more - mostly why I was asking...
Click to expand...
Potashminer: I acquired my SB dies in the early to late 70's. Earliest, 1975 (.308 & 30-06) 1979 (.300WM) The .223's are only a few yrs old. My source of brass in those days was mostly local gravel pits where, with the owner's permission, we were allowed to use the property.

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I use a small base die when reloading my M1A for piece of mind. Or at least I used to. Now the rifle just sits on my desk as a paperweight. :bangHead:

My factory Sako 22 PPC also requires one. For a bolt action, you'll know if you need a small base die if case extraction is stiff at the top of the bolt throw. Some call it the "double click". Of course this is assuming your standard die has been adjusted properly. It's a pretty rare occurrence in SAMMI chambers. A small base die won't bump the shoulder back any further either. It's only tighter at the base. At least that is my experience with the Redding dies.
 
davide montini said:
Hmm depends on what your shooting..semi or bolt or ...
I bought a bunch of brass And my regular dies would not do the job...it was fired out of a machine gun or a gun with really big chamber ...had to resize all with small base die ...then all went very smoothly
Click to expand...

I have a couple small base dies for the same reason. - dan
 
I like to save money by buying once fired IVI or Lake City brass. That being the case, it may have been fired in chambers of just about any size.

If I only resize that brass with a regular die, some of it will not chamber. It was just too large to get to the size I need.

My work around is to resize it twice, the second time using a small base die. After that everything is peachy and I can use regular dies for the life of the brass.
 
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