Not weightless but almost fits in your pocket. A triple folding shotgun.
https://dzen.ru/a/Yy3WDVEe2FVoaRSC
Small shotgun for bear defense
- Thread starter Skogkatt
- Start date
Not weightless but almost fits in your pocket. A triple folding shotgun.
https://dzen.ru/a/Yy3WDVEe2FVoaRSC
I haven't outright worn out so many guns from a single manufacturer as I have with Kel-Tec. The S2K and certain other guns are incredibly handy and do serve a very specific niche role. The KSG is a very interesting design as well, I'd say it does bullpup 12g better than the others who have also tried.
Mine was unreliable though and it was not just a one-off. There is no need to assume I don't know how to run or break in a shotgun, or whatever Bartok's problem is. If they run like magic now that's great. Maybe I will give it another go one day. I definitely won't recommend one or stop from sharing my experience in the meantime though.
On your last sentence, I could only imagine what an abomination a Kel-Tec 870 or whatever would be. Plastic receiver and screws absolutely everywhere holding it together...
Nope, not offended in the least. I am no more wedded to KelTec than I am to any other brand, and far less so than my favorites. In contrast to my appreciation for a couple of KelTec's innovative designs, your dIislike of the company and it's products is palpable. Your excessive badmouthing of their products clearly places you in the 'hater" ranks and casts doubt on everything that you say about them. Regardless of how you feel about KelTec, there is good reason that their more popular models are constantly sold out within the USA and Canada,
I never claimed that KrlTec KSGs are infallible. Like any other product, they can be improperly handled (short-stroked), or may suffer from a QC oversight. All I can say is that my KSG was a great piece of kit with excellent reliability and incredible firepower for its size. My RDB has been equally excellent value for money. I cannot speak to any other KekTec designs as I have never owned them.
BTW - you will get double-feeds in a KSG if you fail to operate the pump action with sufficient force. The forward Handgrip must be pulled all the way rearwards and then forcibly shoved all the,way forwards in a brisk, non-stop manner. I am not lecturing you in the proper way to energetically rack a shotgun, rather my comments are intrnded for anyone else trying a KSG.... lest they induce malfunction in an otherwise reliable firearm.
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Haha, I hear you B! You had some bad luck with your KelTecs, that's for sure. Lots of others claim excellent reliability and high round counts with various KelTecs, so it's inconsistent. Which is probably what you'd expect with this kind of company...
As you may have guessed, I really like KelTec. But only for what it is: A relentless innovator in an otherwise pretty risk-averse industry. Other manufacturers are more conservative with new designs, because they have to be to protect their brands. They innovate just as much as is profitable for their brand (just like every other well-run business).
No question, KelTec firearms have a reputation for poor QC. They also have a lifetime warranty, which is why I'll keep trying new KelTecs from dealers I trust. However, the warranty is not transferrable, so I'd need a healthy discount to consider buying one used.
Fair point about the "KelTec 870", but it just serves to illustrate what KelTec isn't. Nobody has really improved anything about the 870 over the years, it works well enough as it is, so why would KelTec look at it?
Instead (and to get back on the original topic of the thread), KelTec brought us the KS7 which is truly unique in the market: Compared to a full-stock 870 with a 12.5" barrel, the KS7 has the same weight (6lbs), despite having a 6" longer barrel (18.5" vs. 12.5"), 75% greater magazine capacity (7 vs. 4), all while being 6" shorter overall (26" vs. 32").
Extraordinary and exceptional, within its "carry a lot and shoot a little" niche.
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I've heard this pretty consistently, as well. I don't know if there is a mechanical workaround to make it easier to avoid, but one of the common comments about the KS7 is that it's not prone to the same issue and people like its light and smooth cycling.
The KelTe KS7 has a single magazine tube which is manufactured to feed directly into the Chamber in a straight line. Hence the light and easy cycling.
The KSG on the other hand, is feeding from adjacent Mag Tubes into a single Barrel. The rounds must transition from the Mag Tube across and upwards to align with the Chamber of the Barrel. This us a more involved operation than that of the KS7, hence the somewhat "rougher" cycling of the KSG, requiring a more forceful approach.
The KSG on the other hand, is feeding from adjacent Mag Tubes into a single Barrel. The rounds must transition from the Mag Tube across and upwards to align with the Chamber of the Barrel. This us a more involved operation than that of the KS7, hence the somewhat "rougher" cycling of the KSG, requiring a more forceful approach.
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
Two other things that help a lot with the Tac-14 or the Shockwave .....
1.) Something to make the bird's head grip less slippery. Some people wrap it with hockey tape ..... I used a piece of bicycle tubing that I slid over it. This made a huge difference for me. Before my middle finger got always slammed into the trigger guard under recoil. And that did hurt ....
2.) And second a hand sling (3 fingers) that transfers the recoil directly into your arm makes a big difference ....
And as Butcherbill mentioned a longer forend ... I can attest ... it makes a difference as well.
Oh yeah, the inner tube is a huge advantage as well. A good pair of tight fitting gloves with some grip to them on the palm plus the inner tube really made it that much more controllable under recoil, I didn’t go the hand loop/sling but I bet it helps as well.
If we could go with a 12.5” barrel and be over the legal OAL I’d probably still have the birds head on, it’s a lot more compact when it’s under 26.5” in length.
It's true, going from 30" down to 26", 4" doesn't seem like much, until you spend some time packing each. You really notice it. Getting shorter than 26" is better still, of course, but your legal options are functionally less and less ideal. Either ammunition capacity really suffers, or you get into awkward designs like the Mare's Leg.
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
Always liked the look and idea of a mares leg, then I got to shoot one. Didn’t wow me much, I’m sure I’d like it more if it had a full length buttstock. I just found it awkward as you said, not a pistol and not a rifle. Sight radius sucked, at least on a tac14 or shockwave you have a longer sight radius. I guess I was expecting more, think I’d rather have a carbine length m94 or 336 then a mares leg.
A buddy has a marlin guide gun in 45-70 that’s pretty nice, really compact handy rifle in a thumper of a cartridge.
How many rounds is adequate to determine if it's good. My thinking is that the more you shoot the gun the closer it gets to failure. Am I wrong. Everything fails eventually. Vehicles for example. I make sure it works cycles hits close to the sight point of impact. Then hope it will work next time. An older gun with lots of rounds down the pipe is getting closer to having a malfunction no? Don't get me wrong I like old iron. But for a tool I think Turkey is making some good tools
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
I have no faith in any of the cheap Turkish guns when it comes to parts support, honestly they seem disposable for the price. If any of the 870’s, M37’s, M12’s or 500/590’s break or wear out a part it’s not hard to find a new or used replacement part.
Great question, it doesn't get asked enough. It depends on the firearm, but in any case most people probably don't get close.
It's also relative to your application: If you're doing timed gun games, it is easy to think of 500 rounds as a break-in, familiarization, and reliability proofing period - Round counts are going to be much, much higher in the end, so it is not a stretch.
For a shotgun like we're talking about in this thread? Personally I'd say at least 100 trouble-free rounds minimum. Preferably 250 rounds, and more if you can afford it.
This is also true. But if you think the issue pertains to a particular firearm, I think that means you should be working with a different firearm (one with a longer expected lifespan).
I am a lifelong fan of the 870 platform and with a 12.5 inch norinco barrel it is my go to gun for bear protection....funny enough I have resorted to firing warning shots at bears twice and the one time I had a beat to shiit maverick 88 and the other time a 303 in the same condition lol
It is pretty much impossible to know when and if your firearm will fail. We would shoot as many days a week as we could but never less than once a week. When we were out with friends or family it was called walking with guns. We would shoot random targets at bear range , rather than targets at the shooting range. Granted we have an almost unlimited area to shoot in. The number of shots is not as important as long as it goes bang every time you pull the trigger. Just because it works 10-20-30 times in a row does not mean it won't fail when you take that 1 shot that counts. Keep it clean check your ammo and don't buy cheap crap guns , as I said before remember why you are carrying it. We also find that informal practice like walking down the coast is better as it is a more realistic setting and it's more fun.
I have 2 of them I use for bear deterrent...and yeah that's how I'm looking at them. I think I have a churchill and a canuck. To be fair, I'm hundreds of rounds through both of them and neither has had a hiccup (expect the finish on the walnut stock went south really quick). I have a marine stainless winchester but it's too pretty for the trail, so I tend to grab the little turkish guns. If I can get one to fail I'll just put them both in the barn or something as coyote chasers. It took a while to break in the actions, that's for sure, but so far so good.
That would be the Sulun SC-213 which, I believe, is extractor only, as it would take too much effort to trip ejectors, with such a short barrel.
