Smith & Wesson M&P or Gen 4 Glock 21

climbtime said:
Hi there Bob,

Just wondering where you tracked the Apex parts down at? Looking to do the same upgrade...

Thanks for the help!

Cheers
Sean
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I ordered mine through Brownells IIRC. The kit is an easy install and well worth the money. All you need are roll pin punches. Just be careful when you replace the sear and sear spring. You don't want to lose the little ball bearing. I also found holding my tongue against my right cheek helped when re-installing the rear sight after replacing the USB. ;) Apex has a video on youtube that explains the process and is well worth watching before you start replacing parts.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
the M&P grip is not as severe as the Glock and lacks the hump that impacts the base of my palm.

Next time you handle your Glock try positioning the "hump" in the fold of your palm. Took a while for it to become natural but I find this more comfortable and gives me better control of the HG.
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GUNMANSHIP said:
I have both. The first one I got, between the two, was the 9mm M&P range kit, then the Glock 21SF. I like the 45 better, the power and light weight are my favourites of the G21SF, and it's easy for a basic cleaning, the only thing I don't like about it is the ejection port sending casings to one side as opposed to the S&W, and the standard frame is a little much. Although, I'd sell my Hi-Point, or even my Rem 700SPS, before either one of those.
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Comparing a 9 to a 45 is kind of like comparing apples to oranges, though the grip of an M&P45 is very close to the same size as the 9+40 and is simply dwarfed by the grip on a Glock 21. Generally the M&P45 is slightly more accurate than the M&P 9(based on 5,000 rounds through an M&P45 and 25,000+ through the 9's - two of those) and does have a different recoil cycle. The difference in recoil (longer and slower) makes the M&P 45 easily handleable by most shooters. I experienced zero malfunctions in my short time with the M&P45 (only a year) while shooting 200 LSWC, 230 FMJ and various 230 JHP. Additionally, the M&P45 didn't choke on light target loads.
 
johNTO said:
Canuck44 said:
the M&P grip is not as severe as the Glock and lacks the hump that impacts the base of my palm.

Next time you handle your Glock try positioning the "hump" in the fold of your palm. Took a while for it to become natural but I find this more comfortable and gives me better control of the HG.
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No Glock here. I tried several times to find some love for the grip on the G 17. Couldn't find it so I went with the M&P. Grip required no adjustment from the grip I use on all my other pistols. I have found the M&P platform to perform for me in every environment I have found myself in. I may get another PRO and set it up for IPSC Production and the .45acp for IDPA CDP Division. The latter can wait until the new rule book comes out.

Take Care

Bob
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Interestingly I have been hearing recent reports about the Gen 4 G21 possibly being the least affected by the gen 4 problems.

I haven't been able to verify this with a ton of sources but I am starting to hear from very high-level users that the Gen 4 G21 has sorted some of the issues of the Gen 3, without developing the problems of the Gen 4 9mms.

If that's true the Gen 4 G21 could turn out to be one of the best Glocks going, which is interesting. I am doing a bit of research on this now and will report back if I turn up anything interesting.
 
enefgee said:
Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers have said there are 2 modern 45 acp pistols worth considering, the HK45 (which they designed) and the M&P45. The M&P with an Apex trigger kit (in my experience nice but not necessary, you can make great improvements to the trigger with some 1,000 grit and metal polish) and an Uplula is more available and costs less than the HK.
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Ya what those guys say would really sway my decision lol. NOT!
 
misanthropist said:
If you wouldn't be swayed by their advice, frankly you should probably keep that to yourself or people will begin to think you aren't very bright. Those are two of the most knowledgeable people on the planet on that exact subject. Ignoring their advice is fairly foolish.
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The average joe recreational shooter probably has never even heard of those two guys. For high level shooters that expect high performance out of their firearm, then thats a different story. The majority of us will probably never shoot enough to see any of the problems these guys or yourself report on here.

To the op if your like me and just shoot on weekends then dont listen to all this tech crap other guys are talking about. Both guns are good guns that will suit your purpose, buy the one that feels most comfortable to you.
 
It's definitely true that if you do not require any particular performance characteristics from a given implement - gun, car, television, guitar, film projector, anything at all - then there really is no need to worry about what brand to buy.

If the OP is looking for ways to differentiate between the two guns on the basis of performance, well, only by gauging the relative strengths and weaknesses of each gun can he accomplish that.

But I do agree that for the average Canadian gun owner, there is no practical difference in performance. That is more a reflection of the owners than the guns, though.
 
misanthropist said:
It's definitely true that if you do not require any particular performance characteristics from a given implement - gun, car, television, guitar, film projector, anything at all - then there really is no need to worry about what brand to buy.

If the OP is looking for ways to differentiate between the two guns on the basis of performance, well, only by gauging the relative strengths and weaknesses of each gun can he accomplish that.

But I do agree that for the average Canadian gun owner, there is no practical difference in performance. That is more a reflection of the owners than the guns, though.
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Some people are just Larry Vickers wannabes, just like some people that pick up a guitar think they are the next comming of hendrix.


More over the majority of us enjoy the hobbie recreationaly with no ego attached. With no plans on becoming the next Larry,Ken,Jerry or Rob. Most pistols made today will out perform the average recreational shooter. All one has to do who falls into that catagory is buy what feels the best in their hands and within their budget and shoot away.
 
Well I've ordered an M&P. 45 FDE which I am waiting on, and I just purchased the M&P 9mm range and carry kit.

I haven't held the M&P's yet only the Glocks so I hope they are alright.
 
Well in the case of the. 45, I just would like something that not everyone has at the range. I did enjoy shooting the Glock 21, an I plan on getting one, but the I got the M&P. 45 at what I think is a good price.
Now the reason I bought the range and carry kit, is it seems to be a really good deal in my eyes.

Also I don't know who Vickers is.
 
wrinkles88 said:
Well in the case of the. 45, I just would like something that not everyone has at the range. I did enjoy shooting the Glock 21, an I plan on getting one, but the I got the M&P. 45 at what I think is a good price.
Now the reason I bought the range and carry kit, is it seems to be a really good deal in my eyes.

Also I don't know who Vickers is.
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Me either tell i joined this forum lol. Well hope you like them, i have heard lots of good things about those guns, just hope you like how it fits your hand.
 
GunGuy34 said:
Some people are just Larry Vickers wannabes, just like some people that pick up a guitar think they are the next comming of hendrix.


More over the majority of us enjoy the hobbie recreationaly with no ego attached. With no plans on becoming the next Larry,Ken,Jerry or Rob. Most pistols made today will out perform the average recreational shooter. All one has to do who falls into that catagory is buy what feels the best in their hands and within their budget and shoot away.
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I have found that the further you go in shooting, the more equipment choices become divorced from ego.

That is why there is so little variation among the choice of handgun among high level shooters. They have left their egos on the shelf, and selected guns on the basis of performance, rather than trying to justify emotional decisions they have made about guns.
 
misanthropist said:
I have found that the further you go in shooting, the more equipment choices become divorced from ego.

That is why there is so little variation among the choice of handgun among high level shooters. They have left their egos on the shelf, and selected guns on the basis of performance, rather than trying to justify emotional decisions they have made about guns.
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Maybe so, which is why i wont take their advice, they use what they have found works for them and gives them the best performance for how much they shoot.

For the weekend shooter thats not advice that should be followed as most modern pistols will outshoot the average shooter, so why limit options due to what vickers or any of those other guys say. Find what fits your hand the best weather it be cz, glock, sig, mp,beretta etc.. All good guns. Buy one have fun shooting it and dont worry about what vickers says as most on here will probably never reach that level.
 
Agree for the weekend shooter fit is most important. Reminds me of all the debate about Glock Gen 3 & Gen 4 reliability; the infinitesimal difference will not impact those that has to ask what's the diff. You can't bet your life on it except the very few with CCW.
 
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