Smokeless in a Rolling Block Pistol?

Pete, what load did you find worked? I'm shooting a soft lead 340 grain bullet originally designed for the 56-50 spencer. Lubed with dralox and sitting overtop 7 grains of trailboss with a large pistol primer. I'm finding a lot of unburnt powder finding it's way down the sides of my cases so I suspect my load is a little light.
 
I'll have to check my notes but I'm pretty sure I use large rifle primers. My brass is cut down 50-70. I think it's a 350 gr 50cal lead bullet.
 
hk33ka1 said:
Have you annealed those cases necks? May help seal it up. What dies did you end up with?
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I have not annealed the case necks but the brass appears to have been annealed before I got them. I bought Lyman 50-70 dies as my 1871 pistol has been rebarreled and had the chamber reamed for full length 50-70.
 
I'm thinking a magum primer or rifle primer might be a good idea. I had one round that sounded a little on the light side when it went off. That may help me a little with building pressure as well.
 
It's not the primer - your load is exceptionally light, far too light to provide reliable igniton.

The 7.0 grs of Trail Boss load I gave was for the 515gr bullet and would go about 14K psi. With a 340gr bullet it's likely at about 8K psi. Just how low do you think you need to go?

Try 12.0 grs of Trail Boss with that bullet and post your results - or mess around with primers as you wish.
 
The loads I provided are from the latest Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. They are all under 18K psi, but the Rem #1 Rolling Block action can handle up to 28K psi. In a pistol and with heavy bullets, that would be "exciting".

A good rule of thumb to employ is that if you use loads for a cartridge of the same or less capacity but with a smaller bore, the resulting pressure will be lower. The 45-70 has just slightly less case capacity than the 50-70, but a smaller bore, so you can use any of the many 45-70 loads for Trail Boss, and the pressure in the 50-70 will be lower. Hodgdon has published loads for Trail Boss for the 45-70 for four bullet weights, for the Springfield Trapdoor, Rolling Block and other antiques: http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Using this method you can only estimate pressure, but you can be sure it will be lower, which is the prime concern. Trying to "see how low you can go" can result in unburnt powder, inconsistent ignition, and bullet that fail to exit the bore. I'd work in the middle to max range with those 45-70 loads in the 50-70 (and have in my Swedish Rolling Block).
 
I've loaded a few up with 12 gr to try. I'd like to keep the load mild as recoil will become an issue at some point. The rolling block has also been repaired in the past so I'd like to keep pressure to a minimum if at all possible.
 
Will a full length 50-70 even chamber in this gun?

I suggest that you do a chamber cast. Most, if not all of these rolling block pistols were chambered in 50 Remington, not 50-70.

The following is from Cartridges of the World, 11th Edition
(keeping in mind that there are lots of bogus information in CotW)

50 Remington (M71 Army)
Historical notes. This cartridge was introduced in its original version as the 50 remington Pistol, navy Model 1867. The cartridge listed here is the 1871 Army modification. both were used in slightly different models of the remington single shot rolling block pistol. the older navy cartridgebhad a straight, tapered case, while the Army round had a slight but distinct bottleneck. The Army cartridge also had a larger diameter rim that prevented it from being fired from the Navy pistol. However, the navy cartridge would chamber and fire OK in the Army pistol. Commercial ammunition was available untill about 1920, and used the Navy dimensions. Ammunition was loaded by both Winchester and Remington.

General Comments. this is an obsolete blackpowder cartridge of the early centerfire type originally made with an inside primer. it has been included to complete the record of U>S> military cartridges. The old Remington rolling block pistols are much esteemed for conversions to modern cartridges and for target shooting. the standard load was 25 grains of FFg blackpowder. This large, heavy bullet should have been a good man-stopper and would certainly be adequate for the usual run of small to medium game at short range. Ammunition of the Army type pistol can be made from 50-70 cases. Cases with the early inside primers are not reloadable. Some commercial cartridges made with Boxer primers could be reloaded. Both cartridges are now collectors items.

bullet dia. .508
neck dia. .532
shoulder dia. .564
base dia. .564
rim dia. .665
case length .875
ctge. length 1.24


they list a 300 gr militay load at 600 fps, and a 265 gr load over 7.0 gr of unique at 750 fps.
 
tjsudbury said:
missed that post:redface:,

but holy crap! that's got to be a handfull
Click to expand...

Definitely a handful. First pic is the gun with a few loaded rounds. For comparison is a 45 Long Colt and a 455 mkII round :eek: . Pic number two is a comparison between the 340 grain bullet I'm using and a 455 mkII round.

remington5070001.jpg


remington5070002.jpg
 
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