Smokeless in Antiques

I use 15 gr of TB behind a 350gr bullet for my 45-70 Trapdoor, I use it for long range silhouette here in Canada and the US and its been an accurate and enjoyable round for me and the old gun.

Of course I get laughed at by the old chaps for its 22LR pop sound, but hey.....:D
 
tactical870 said:
Anyone here use trailboss in 50-70? Trying to figure out a good load for a 340 gr bullet in my 1871 remington pistol.
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Hodgdon lists two loads for the 500 S&W which has a slightly smaller case and slightly smaller bore, and the load is for a slightly heavier bullet, so listed pressures will be a fair bit lower:

370 GR. CPB LGC
8.0 grs - 746 fps - 13,500 PSI
12.0 grs - 926 fps - 19,000 PSI

Rolling Block actions should be kept to 28K psi or lower, so based on the above, with Trail Boss, I'd work in the 10.0-15.0 gr range, and you'll never reach 20K psi, nor 800 fps.
 
I use 50/70 brass cut down and then just go by their instructions for loading depending on what bullet I'm using. I'm not sure what they are cut down to but I could measure them and let you know.
 
I just use the Speer reloading manual, gives safe smokeless loads for old guns.
I have also used FF 777 & FF Yukon Gold with good smokey results & keeps the rusty worries down. Keep in mind 777 is 15% hotter than black & only FF is to be used when reloading with it. I always follow the manufacturers instruction with any of this stuff. I also enjoy the real stuff loaded through the ol' drop tube.
Have fun & Play Safe:D
 
Ran across this:
When you must avoid the use of BP,the best substitute is DuPont's smokeless IMR4198.A standard rule of thumb for this powder is as follows:
IMR4198=(org.BP)(.29)
Translation:
To determine the weight of IMR4198 for a specific cartridge,multiply the original weight of black powder by .29,which is a constant.
Example:
When reloading .45-125 Winchester ammo without using black powder,apply this formula:
(125)(.29)=36.25
Explanation:
36.3 grains of IMR4198 is the suggested smokeless powder load for use with the original weight bullet(in this case 300 gr)
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It goes on to caution against light loads without packing or wadding the charge in the bottom of the case.
It was the actual formula and powder I thought pertinent.
 
ciphery said:
How about Bp loads for 1880's damascus side by side 2 1/2 12gau?
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I use 75-80 grains of FFG and an equal scope charge of shot.
i use brass hulls, a nitro card wad, lubed cushion wad, .035 wad, shot, then another .035 wad.
i glue the overshot wad in place with a spray of either contact cement or tremclad rust paint!:)
If I am going afield with them, i often run a dab of silicone sealant in four points on the OS wad to make sure it stays there in real ruogh use however.
80 grians of FF and 1 1/16oz lof #2 Nice shot is motre than enough to kill geese cleanly, BTW!:cool:
Cat
 
the Paradox:
45/70
lyman manual lists: 457102 at 426gr / 70gr FFg 1256fps / 16900CUP

it appears that about 56gr nitro is a compressed load, so if I find a powder, where 56gr or so has a MV of 1250, it is safe to assume the pressure will be LESS than BP

so, if we extrapolate that data into a 45 cal ML, using the same 56gr of whatever powder was required to reach 1250fps with 56gr load, the chamber pressure will be the same and therefore totally SAFE to use in a ML.

and if your inline 50 cal ML is proofed to handle 150gr of powder, using the 50/140 as a base, whatever slow powder fills the case, to produce 1550fps or so as was the original MV using BP, it is safe to assume the chamber pressure will be lower and totally safe in a modern 50 cal ML.

And YET, there are many who say I'm crazy thinking like this and will surely blow myself up if I try this.

I'm sure someone with QL can do calculation and tell me what the fastest powder to use to get that 1550fps in a 50Cal ML, using the 50/140Sharps as a guide.

or better yet, use the 50/90. Probably a couple options there
 
71/84 Mauser
I have settled on 16 grains of Trail Boss in my Mauser. Using Dominion brass, Fed 210 primer, a 340 grain .446 bullet from The Bullet Barn, and i sheet of toilet tissue I get 1183±3 ft/sec.
 
Duplex in 50-70

I just tried a duplex load in my Shiloh 50-70 carbine - 6 grs SR4759/60 grs FFg under a Lyman 515141.
Very clean burning and accurate! First shot was right on POA, sitting at 50 yds.
Five rounds in 2-3/4". The wind was howling so badly that off hand was out of the question as was shooting at 100 yds.

Recoil was noticeable, but not punishing and I was wearing a shirt over a T-shirt. With a hunting jacket, it won't be an issue.
 
Gun5tuff said:
71/84 Mauser
I have settled on 16 grains of Trail Boss in my Mauser. Using Dominion brass, Fed 210 primer, a 340 grain .446 bullet from The Bullet Barn, and i sheet of toilet tissue I get 1183±3 ft/sec.
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Last week I shot a black bear at 40 yards. It was a head/neck shot with the above load. The bear is now in my freezer.

Here we have a gun made in 1888 designed to kill a person used in a peaceful gathering of food for my family. It is no longer a weapon but a dinner getter.
Everyone in camp enjoyed shooting it at various targets. I was surprised that it penetrated a dry spruce timber to 14 inches.
 
Definitely not recommended in a muzzleloader.
unless using a bp substitute like pyrodex
 
canadianfencible said:
Any recommendation to replace black powder in brass cannon with 2" bore ?
Presently using 3oz of 2f
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All I have ever read and heard is that muzzleloaders and smokeless anything do not mix. like said above unless its a safe substitute BP.

With this you will still have excess fouling, possible left over embers in the combustion chamber and corrosive properties.

Only other possible option is maybe the wanna be bulk smokeless powder Blackhorn 209?. I don't know if it will ignite reliably though or how it would perform pressure wise in such a large bore.
 
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