Smokeless Loads for Martini-Henry .450/577 and Snider-Enfield .577 Calibers!?

Nabs

Nabs

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Hello,

So, time for the great evil... smokeless in a Black Powder Gun!!!! I have done some preliminary research but was hoping, with the increased popularity of these guns in recent years, that we as a community could assemble a small group of tried, proved "safe in my gun", smokeless loads for these rifles. The actions tend to be quite strong.

I know of two loads for certain, one being 13 grains of Unique, with a .480 grain bullet in the .577 Snider, and Martini-Henry, being a plinking load, the other being 23 grains of SR4759, which nears the military black powder load of a Snider. No case filler is needed, however, I have heard of some people putting just a hint of polyfill or cotton ball in their case just to keep the powder from spilling on it's side and causing inconsistent burn. Thoughts on this?

Lets assemble some really good loads here and help make these old girls easier, less labour intensive, and cleaner to shoot!

Would love, if there is enough interest and posts here, to get this stickied! And yes, if you want to say "don't do it, black powder gun only!" You are welcome to do so.

-Nabs
 
Great start gents! Zuke, can you provide your overall cartridge length, bullet weight, size etc, all your loading details for your reload please? And Burnt_Servo, an example of your antique handgun loads with the trail boss would be great.
 
Nabs said:
Great start gents! Zuke, can you provide your overall cartridge length, bullet weight, size etc, all your loading details for your reload please? And Burnt_Servo, an example of your antique handgun loads with the trail boss would be great.
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5.5 grains of trailboss with a 216 grain soft lead cast bullet in a 45 schofield
5 grains of trail boss in a 455 webley , with a 216 grain bullet
5 grains of trail boss in a 44 special with a 200 grain bullet
 
I can't remember the load exactly , but I think I load 22 grains of trail boss in my Sniders with a Jennkison bullet.
I can check when I get home.
I prefer to shoot them with black powder however.
Cat
 
As cast 45-70 boolet paper patched up to .570-.572 with 2 wrap's of green bar computer paper. I use any weight boolit with 15gr of 700X
I use what ever alloy I'm casting. From pure lead to WW
I seat just shy of the crimp groove
 
If you guys subscribed to the Black Powder Cartridge News, you would not even consider using wads over miniscule charges of smokeless powder in large capacity cartridge cases for BPCR's. Ringed barrels happen as well as detonations. Not all the time, but frequently enough to make it a dodgey proposition.

The famous "Quigley" match at Forsythe, Montana has suffered a couple of blow ups as they allow the use of smokeless and duplex loads. They are rethinking the rules.

But - it's your rifle, your eyes and hands and to hell with the innocent bystanders. Shiloh does not advocate using smokeless in any of their firearms other than those chambered for modern cartridges using FACTORY ammunition. And their steels are one hell of a lot better than you'll find in a Martini-Henry or Snider.

Shoot Black Powder or go home!
 
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There's alway's one.:popCorn:

Sharps '63 said:
If you guys subscribed to the Black Powder Cartridge News, you would not even consider using wads over miniscule charges of smokeless powder in large capacity cartridge cases for BPCR's. Ringed barrels happen as well as detonations. Not all the time, but frequently enough to make it a dodgey proposition.

The famous "Quigley" match at Forsythe, Montana has suffered a couple of blow ups as they allow the use of smokeless and duplex loads. They are rethinking the rules.

But - it's your rifle, your eyes and hands and to hell with the innocent bystanders. Shiloh does not advocate using smokeless in any of their firearms other than those chambered for modern cartridges using FACTORY ammunition. And their steels are one hell of a lot better than you'll find in a Martini-Henry or Snider.

Shoot Black Powder or go home!
Click to expand...
 
I've shot quite a bit of smokeless in the Snider-Enfield. With the 320 gr 0.600" Round Ball, no wadding, 18.0 grs of Unique and 33.0 grs of SR4759 both worked well.

I've also shot smokeless in the Martini Henry, but I'll have to look for the data and post it later.
 
In .45-70's IMR 3031 is pretty good, generally anything up to the 34 grains mark is safe in older guns, and maybe even a little more depending on the Bullet used and of course the firearm itself. Fills the case pretty good and burns consistently with a magnum primer.
 
I was referring to small charges of pistol powders held in place by wadding of any kind, not the 40% smokeless for black which has been the norm for BPCR's for decades.
Ross Seyfried is said to have been the developer of the formula.

In other words, 40% of 70 grs BP = 28 grs of powders like 5744, 4198 and a few other powders. These loads fall with the pressure ratings of any BPCR safe for shooting at all.
The information is there on various BPCR forums. I would take any other such load data from private blogs with a grain of salt.

I use 5744 in this capacity as it is known not to be sensitive to case position of the charge. Such charges barely begin to fill large capacity cases, so the danger is always there for an over charge. This is thought to be what caused the blow ups at the Forsythe "Quigley" matches.

Matthew Quigley did NOT use smokeless powder in his fictional Sharps rife! That shoot needs to be renamed.
 
use the old 40% nitro for black rule on the martini henry using H4198 you will want proper solid head brass not reformed 24ga balloon head brass. stay away from tarilboss in the martini henry its proven to have huge pressure spikes

as for the snider you never use smokeless in the snider most are made from P1853 enfield rifled muskets and are a very weak action its just not a good idea
 
Andy said:
I've shot quite a bit of smokeless in the Snider-Enfield. With the 320 gr 0.600" Round Ball, no wadding, 18.0 grs of Unique and 33.0 grs of SR4759 both worked well.

I've also shot smokeless in the Martini Henry, but I'll have to look for the data and post it later.
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catnthehatt said:
I can't remember the load exactly , but I think I load 22 grains of trail boss in my Sniders with a Jennkison bullet.
I can check when I get home.
I prefer to shoot them with black powder however.
Cat
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never do this and I would take this advice as very bad advice using smokeless in a snider is just waiting for something to go wrong

buy some real BP even if you have to pay for shipping/hazmat do so it well worth your safety
 
I was shooting pal John's Mk1 Martini this morning with the following load -

28gr of 4198, two scoops of semolina, 500gr semi-hard FN bullet. Goes very well and kept inside the four ring, too...

tac
 
tacfoley said:
I was shooting pal John's Mk1 Martini this morning with the following load -

28gr of 4198, two scoops of semolina, 500gr semi-hard FN bullet. Goes very well and kept inside the four ring, too...

tac
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semolina is that anything like cream of wheat I do not recommend anything like that past the neck of the martini henry cartridge it tends to act like a solid slug under pressure causing pressure spikes cotton,polyfill,kapok these are better fillers
 
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