Snail drum magazine for Luger - Legal status for importation?

papy

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
225   0   0
Hello,

I am looking to catch a snail drum magazine (1st or 2nd model). Very hard to find in Canada... I would have a better chance with the importation process, I guess.
It is a 32 rounds capacity mag. but I think that I can legally import it because of the date of manufacture. According to you, is it correct?
 
Original Snail Drum mags for the P08 Luger are exempt from the 10 round cap for handguns, are are named exemptions in the Firearms act.

Trying to get one imported, might be another story...

I would make sure you have a copy (digital and paper) of the actual regs. (can be found on the RCMP CFC website)

PROHIBITED DEVICES


Former Cartridge Magazine Control Regulations

3. (1) Any cartridge magazine

(a) that is capable of containing more than five cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in

(i) a semi-automatic handgun that is not commonly available in Canada,


(ii) a semi-automatic firearm other than a semi-automatic handgun,


(iii) an automatic firearm whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger,


(iv) the firearms of the designs commonly known as the Ingram M10 and M11 pistols, and any variants or modified versions of them, including the Cobray M10 and M11 pistols, the RPB M10, M11 and SM11 pistols and the SWD M10, M11, SM10 and SM11 pistols,


(v) the firearm of the design commonly known as the Partisan Avenger Auto Pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, or


(vi) the firearm of the design commonly known as the UZI pistol, and any variant or modified version of it, including the Micro-UZI pistol; or



(b) that is capable of containing more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed and that is designed or manufactured for use in a semi-automatic handgun that is commonly available in Canada.



(2) Paragraph (1)(a) does not include any cartridge magazine that

(a) was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm that


(i) is chambered for, or designed to use, rimfire cartridges,


(ii) is a rifle of the type commonly known as the “Lee Enfield” rifle, where the magazine is capable of containing not more than 10 cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed, or


(iii) is commonly known as the U.S. Rifle M1 (Garand) including the Beretta M1 Garand rifle, the Breda M1 Garand rifle and the Springfield Armoury M1 Garand rifle;



(b) is not a reproduction and was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm that

(i) is commonly known as the Charlton Rifle,


(ii) is commonly known as the Farquhar-Hill Rifle, or


(iii) is commonly known as the Huot Automatic Rifle;



(c) is of the “drum” type, is not a reproduction and was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm commonly known as

(i) the .303 in. Lewis Mark 1 machine-gun, or any variant or modified version of it, including the Lewis Mark 1*, Mark 2, Mark 2*, Mark 3, Mark 4, Lewis SS and .30 in. Savage-Lewis,


(ii) the .303 in. Vickers Mark 1 machine-gun, or any variant or modified version of it, including the Mark 1*, Mark 2, Mark 2*, Mark 3, Mark 4, Mark 4B, Mark 5, Mark 6, Mark 6* and Mark 7, or


(iii) the Bren Light machine-gun, or any variant or modified version of it, including the Mark 1, Mark 2, Mark 2/1, Mark 3 and Mark 4;



(d) is of the “metallic-strip” type, is not a reproduction and was originally designed or manufactured for use in conjunction with the firearm known as the Hotchkiss machine-gun, Model 1895 or Model 1897, or any variant or modified version of it, including the Hotchkiss machine-gun, Model 1900, Model 1909, Model 1914 and Model 1917, and the Hotchkiss machine-gun (Enfield), Number 2, Mark 1 and Mark 1*;


(e) is of the “saddle-drum” type (doppeltrommel or satteltrommel), is not a reproduction and was originally designed or manufactured for use in the automatic firearms known as the MG-13, MG-15, MG-17, MG-34, T6-200 or T6-220, or any variant or modified version of it; or


(f) is of the “belt” type consisting of a fabric or metal belt, is not a reproduction and was originally designed or manufactured for the purpose of feeding cartridges into a automatic firearm of a type that was in existence before 1945.



(3) Paragraph (1)(b) does not include any cartridge magazine that

(a) is of the “snail-drum” type (schneckentrommel) that was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm that is a handgun known as the Parabellum-Pistol, System Borchardt-Luger, Model 1900, or “Luger”, or any variant or modified version of it, including the Model 1902, Model 1904 (Marine), Model 1904/06 (Marine), Model 1904/08 (Marine), Model 1906, Model 1908 and Model 1908 (Artillery) pistols;

(b) was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm that is a semi-automatic handgun, where the magazine was manufactured before 1910;


(c) was originally designed or manufactured as an integral part of the firearm known as the Mauser Selbstladepistole C/96 (“broomhandle”), or any variant or modified version of it, including the Model 1895, Model 1896, Model 1902, Model 1905, Model 1912, Model 1915, Model 1930, Model 1931, M711 and M712; or


(d) was originally designed or manufactured for use in the semi-automatic firearm that is a handgun known as the Webley and Scott Self-Loading Pistol, Model 1912 or Model 1915.



(4) A cartridge magazine described in subsection (1) that has been altered or re-manufactured so that it is not capable of containing more than five or ten cartridges, as the case may be, of the type for which it was originally designed is not a prohibited device as prescribed by that subsection if the modification to the magazine cannot be easily removed and the magazine cannot be easily further altered so that it is so capable of containing more than five or ten cartridges, as the case may be.


(5) For the purposes of subsection (4), altering or re-manufacturing a cartridge magazine includes

(a) the indentation of its casing by forging, casting, swaging or impressing;


(b) in the case of a cartridge magazine with a steel or aluminum casing, the insertion and attachment of a plug, sleeve, rod, pin, flange or similar device, made of steel or aluminum, as the case may be, or of a similar material, to the inner surface of its casing by welding, brazing or any other similar method; or


(c) in the case of a cartridge magazine with a casing made of a material other than steel or aluminum, the attachment of a plug, sleeve, rod, pin, flange or similar device, made of steel or of a material similar to that of the magazine casing, to the inner surface of its casing by welding, brazing or any other similar method or by applying a permanent adhesive substance, such as a cement or an epoxy or other glue.
 
Original Snail Drum mags for the P08 Luger are exempt from the 10 round cap for handguns, are are named exemptions in the Firearms act.

Trying to get one imported, might be another story...

I would make sure you have a copy (digital and paper) of the actual regs. (can be found on the RCMP CFC website)

that seems to list bren mags too but we have to have those pinned or i that only for the bren drum
 
that seems to list bren mags too but we have to have those pinned or i that only for the bren drum

(2) Paragraph (1)(a) does not include any cartridge magazine that

(a) was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm that
(c) is of the “drum” type, is not a reproduction and was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm commonly known as
(iii) the Bren Light machine-gun, or any variant or modified version of it, including the Mark 1, Mark 2, Mark 2/1, Mark 3 and Mark 4;
 
i think it has to be pinned at 10rd

unless it does fall under the historical mags thing

Does not have to be pinned. PLease do not perpetuate the wrong info, that is how historical items are destroyed.

that seems to list bren mags too but we have to have those pinned or i that only for the bren drum

Bren mags must be pinned but Bren drums do not.
 
Snail drum useless

Assuming the customs idiots have been educated, make sure you get the loading tool, the drum is useless without it.

I have heard the tools cost as much as the drums LOL!

Maybe you can find a repro -

:ar15:
swingerlh.gif
 
Assuming the customs idiots have been educated, make sure you get the loading tool, the drum is useless without it.

I have heard the tools cost as much as the drums LOL!

Maybe you can find a repro -

I really am not sure where the laws stand on the "repro" side of things... I think it may be a no go for the Snail Drum...

(c) is of the “drum” type, is not a reproduction and was originally designed or manufactured for use in a firearm commonly known as
 
I would "hunt" on the safe side and use a reputable importer/exporter like Prophet River or maybe IRunGuns?

You don't want to find it, pay the big bucks for the mag, and get all your ducks lined up in relation to Canadian regs and customs laws... and then have your drum seized by US customs because the proper paper work wasn't completed on their side of the border..

Just a thought! :)
 
And that's a very useful thought... ;-) PR helped me with the importation of a beautiful Roth-Steyr M-07 pistol (thanks Melissa!). Great staff and highly professionnal service.
 
My read is that the drum must be original, the tool they could not care about. Original drums will be scarce and very expensive, hence is likely the reason they allowed the exemption as they knew it would apply to handful of devices.
 
Be careful on a Luger drum. There are some very good repro's out there and they are all over the place in Europe. Prices are normally just a bit lower than the real thing. I've held a repro and an original side by side and the repro's are GOOD. The regulations allow the possession of an original, but I'd hate to have to argue the parentage of a drum to someone at Canada Customs......
 
Hello,

I am looking to catch a snail drum magazine (1st or 2nd model). Very hard to find in Canada... I would have a better chance with the importation process, I guess.
It is a 32 rounds capacity mag. but I think that I can legally import it because of the date of manufacture. According to you, is it correct?

While getting one across the boarder might prove impractical or impossible, I know they are around. At the Calgary Gun Show in April, there was a guy selling 2 or 3 of them,
 
You are going to need the loading tool if you plan on loading the Trommel mag to its full capacity of 32 rnds, without the tool you may be able to squeeze about 8 rnds down the mag tube, when the trommel mags were shipped 5 drums were in a chest with one loading tool--these are very hard to find--armourer's reworked the loading tool into an unloading tool which works just fine, many luger collectors do not set to much store in their originalty but they do exist--the Trommel mags were produced by Gerbruder Bing and AEG of Germany--Gerbruder Bing was an established toy maker.

Wheaty said to make sure they work and he would be correct--the only way to make sure the drum is actually workable is to load the drum up and give her a try so be sure to buy off of someone whom knows what they are talking about. Also Wheaty stated repros and Sarco in the USA does make good repos--can fool all but those in the know--just a hint is to make sure the seams are riveted--no arc welders in Imperial Germany.

The AEG with the telescopic loading arm will probably set you back slightly more than a G B drum in either type one or two.
 
Note that for almost all of the exempted types of magazines, be it belts, bren drums, or almost all the other exemptions, they state "original and not a reproduction". But for the Luger snail drum, that phrase is not there. It would suggest that a reproduction Luger snail drum would also be exempt from the cartridge exemptions.
 
Note that for almost all of the exempted types of magazines, be it belts, bren drums, or almost all the other exemptions, they state "original and not a reproduction". But for the Luger snail drum, that phrase is not there. It would suggest that a reproduction Luger snail drum would also be exempt from the cartridge exemptions.

So any of the items under (3) Paragraph (1)(b) can be repros? A guy really needs to read those regs over a few times to understand fully, eh? :D

... Or a lawyer. ;)
 
Everything stated is true. US pricing:
Original Drums $1200+
Original Loaders $1200+

Repro Drums $1200
Repro Loaders $400

Canada last drum I saw was $2000+

The repros are also good. Darrin Weaver had some drums and repro loaders listed on his site. He pulled the drums after he found out they were fake. Darrin doesn't sell fake kit without advertising. He felt pretty bad about the whole thing, especially as a co-author or "Mauser Pistolen".

These drums were also used on the MP18, which makes them even more desirable with the 100th Anniversery of WW1. "Sons of Guns" was an example, where a movie arsenal gent got an MP18 fixed up and was happy to pay $2000 for a magazine.

Go through an importer due to the price. Technically on the Canadian side you are allowed to own original drums (not repro), loaders should not be a problem. The big problem is their is a financial limit on the price of "gun parts" that you can order from the US without an import permit, last time I checked was $125 or so??? This doesn't take into account US laws for export.

PR will take care of you, just make sure that the US exporter knows they don't have to pin the mag!!!
 
Back
Top Bottom