Sniper Challenge

Then again..............If you know how to shoot long range with a ballistic pig such as a .308, there should be no problems with keeping up with the magnums!!!!

Keep it as simple as possible...no one down range, no choppers.....etc.( I doubt I could hit anything from a moving chopper, without a lot of practice) Make the shots reasonable say 1200 yards and under, as long as you mark the target with the round, count points!!! No need to knock it over!!

Make the shoot challenging to the shooters abillities like reading wind, ranging and estimating targets, no flags for wind or wind meters! Have a no shoot stage, and have the shooter and spotter range targets (mil-dot, TMR, etc) only and the team with the right answer (closest) scores points.

If you guys want more challenging, then ask Mutt rock for a deasign for the 4MOA target that when hit turns into a 1/2 MOA target and both spotter and shooter must hit to score.

What about "know your limitations" targets at different ranges but you must shoot larger MOA down till you miss or "chicken out"!!!

One last thing remember that the targets will have to be reset or painted for the next set of shooters!!!! The farther you have to drive the less shooting time all will have!!!! Made a difference at the ALRC!!!!


Just my $.02!!!

Hey Albertacoyotecaller.....ALRC = Alberta Long Range Challenge!!
 
Longshot said:
So what kind of calibers or classes are you going to allow?
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Here is a teaser.

This is where this shoot will differ from many you have all been apart off in previous competitions. The course of fire is laid out in such a way that no caliber will have an advantage over another throughout the entire course of fire. This course of fire will require close team work for a team to be successfull and shooters knowing thier limits and when not to engage thier targets, engaging beyond your limit may cost you points:D.
There are oportunities for extream long range shots with big bonus points, but missing that shot will cost points from your score if you choose to take the shot:eek:. All target ranges are unknown until you figure them out, and no two shooting lanes have targets at the same range.:evil: Snipers are allowed one rifle for the entire competition. Pick well.

Keep in mind there is also a part of this event that will require you to carry EVERYTHING you have brought to the shoot kit wise. If you bring it be prepared to pack it, to much kit and to heavy a rifle may cost you in an event;). So in otherwords there are no caliber restrictions, no restricions on type of rifle(other than being non restricted) or kit you bring. Where your kit may have an advantage in one part of the shoot be assured poor planning will cost you in another. Course of fire will be like a strategy game utilizing other shooters mistakes to your advantage and vice versa in some events.

I will not go into to much detail until all has been worked through and dry run. We will post a general course of fire and rules prior to the shoot for everyone to be equally, or not, prepared. That will come down to the teams planning. You will enter your team as a designated spotter/ or sniper. There will be no changing of role during the competition, but each will play a scoring roll and have a large impact on scoring. The spotter will be equiped with a non restricted rifle of his choice, plan to expend lots of ammo.

It is our hopes this shoot will deliver great enjoyment, challenge your shooting skill regardless of caliber or rifle, test your field skills and range estimating, TEAM WORK, as you will be unable to complete this course as an individual yet at the same time challenge those experianced as well as newcomers.

Expect the unexpected and dont cry because you feel your at a disadvantage in a certian time during a certain course of fire, I can assure everyone they will feel at a disadvantage at some point of this shoot.:D

Life isn't fair and nor is this course of fire, The best team will be the one that makes the best out of all situations regardless of range or rifle. This shoot is about the TEAM. At the end of this shoot be assured your skills will have been challenged and you will have had a great time and built some good bonds with fellow shooters, And hopefully walk away with a sence of accomplishment and pride in what you have done.

This will not be a physically intense course so don't worry about having the bag driven off of you. I'm older and Fatter myself.:cheers:
 
:D
Mutt-roc said:
my vote would be to only run magnums. i know with the ALRC we are talking about changing it into two different events. the origional ALRC will be our long range shoot where you will have to run a magnum to keep up and run a different event with the same targets but more positional shooting and closer distances and everyone will have to run a 308 to keep everyone on the same playing field. i know that was always the issue with our shoot is that it just simply isnt fair to put a ballistic pig 308 up against a high BC magnum. also what were you guys planning for target sizes?
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The majority of the targets are being planned as Millitary Charging Ivans full body and shorties, with a few senario specific targets and some camoflaged. All will be scored as simple as hit or miss. Due to where we are shooting and distances we will be shooting we have come up with a simple scoring system, that will allow us for quick scoring, target patching and cleanup at the end of the event...nothing burns like paper, cardboard and survey stakes.:D

We may need to hit you up for a few of your steels as well.;)
 
i built some new targets that when hit they lay down and flash a bright green square and then auto reset themselves and stand up. nothing mechanical on them they work with a counter weight effect. no argueing about hits of misses and no need to drive down and stand them up.
 
Mutt-roc said:
so the spotter has a non- restricted assult riffle not a precision rig?
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Your Targets sound very interesting!! might work well in one of our senario's.

As a spotter bring what ever you like non restricted. I've seen some that can hit 1000meter targets with Iron sights on a Lee Enfield better than some shooters with scoped precision rigs...think you've met some of them to Mutt. Some that can speed shoot an old lever gun very accurately and as fast as others with a semi auto. My only advise is bring what you know and be sure it is non restricted:D We intend to have members of "Those that may be watching this closesly" in attendance and enjoying the fun. I would also suggest you cross train with your partners rifle, you never know what may come up.;)
 
My partner and I are watching with great interest!!

As others have mentioned, we are not soldiers so crawling through mud for days on end is not particularly fun for us.

A creative long range match with a variety of shooting positions and distances to challange our skills is exactly what we are looking for.
 
HeadDamage, you just did. Just express an interest at this time, as things become more formal we will send out invitations and registrations.

Tango Kilo, it is our hopes that this shoot will be exactly what you are looking for. Regardless of final scores everyone should leave feeling a winner. No matter what level your shooting skill is all will be challenged to test themselve's alot of this shoot is around knowing your limits, the challenge will be pushing them to the next level. In my personal opinion the winner will not be the one's who placed 1st but each team that went beyond thier comfort level and at the end of the day set thier bar higher and went further than they realized possible. Leave this match with new knowledge and new friends and you won.
 
So far the only thing i see sniper related is the marksmenship aspect which we all know is not all snipers do.
I hope there would be a stalking phase ( With gun but bolt removed ) where you have to stalk to within 200 meters with 2 spotters looking for you then have to identify a letter they hold up, then you simulate a gun shot maybe blow a whisler or something then see if you are still undetected, After 2 times you stalk back out. For the people who are out of shape maybe this could be a motivator for you to get in shape ( myself included ).

I dont mind stalking in the bush and mud i wanna work for that One shot one kill. Stalk in set up that FFP and mil the target, actually make a hide. It isnt hard to make a ghillie suit, ( Bring your own ghillie ) I also like the idea someone mentioned about using a map and compass to get to a point where you are met by someone who gives you a mission.

Maybe do some Target detection exercises, KIMs game and shoot at moving targets. I wanna miss sometimes i dont wanna hit my target everytime cause we all know you learn more from a miss then a hit.

Day 1 Marksmenship
Day 2 Stalking and Land navigation
Day 3 Mission

P.S. This is called Sniper Challenge not F class i wanna be Challenged
 
I don't see why you would waste time crawling thru the mud instead of shooting. The time it would eat up to run 10 teams thru a stalking event would be the better part of the day. As for a compass or gps round I don't think it would be a good idea to have people wondering around where u have shooting lanes all over. A team could get lost and end up walking onto a range. I thought the reason for the shoot was to have a long range unknown distance shoot because u have a awesome place to do it. If we are going to play hide and seek there is a rivervalley in edmonton
 
Mutt-roc said:
I don't see why you would waste time crawling thru the mud instead of shooting. The time it would eat up to run 10 teams thru a stalking event would be the better part of the day. As for a compass or gps round I don't think it would be a good idea to have people wondering around where u have shooting lanes all over. A team could get lost and end up walking onto a range. I thought the reason for the shoot was to have a long range unknown distance shoot because u have a awesome place to do it. If we are going to play hide and seek there is a rivervalley in edmonton
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If its not going to emcompass the marksmanship, fieldcraft, and tactics, call it an unknown distance shoot, not a sniper challenge. Not saying there is anything wrong with that as it would be fun but it would not be a sniper related shoot. As far as crawling through the mud, if a route is selected properly, you can probably walk the majority of the distance up to the point of setting up your hide for a final firing position, unless your are stalking across a football field etc. You probably wouldnt need a ghillie suit either, a veil would suffice. If a shoot is set up properly, there should be no shooting during a stalk so there should be no concern of guys walking onto a range where guys are shooting.All the shooting is done once all teams have reached their final position and it is done one at a time. Safety is obviously paramount when setting up these types of exercises.
 
How many Guys have a chance to shoot at "Ivan" at unknown distances??

How many guys can make first round hits on said targets (with no back stops) on the first shot????? And no walking the shots into targets!!

How many guys can call a targets' range with a mil-dot calculation and read wind - without a wind meter- and make a first round hit in the vitals????

Call it a "sniper challenge" and make shooting, calculating wind, range, etc. the challenge. There is no need to go crawling around in the mud, pretending to be something Most of us are not.

If there is a shooting team from the Canadian Millitary, my money would go on them for all the first round hits!!!!

I have a range at home and have Ivans placed at known distances and even then making a clean hit is difficult without a wind meter!!!

Keep it simple and keep it fun!!!
 
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apapro said:
Call it a "sniper challenge" and make shooting, calculating wind, range, etc. the challenge. There is no need to go crawling around in the mud, pretending to be something Most of us are not.If there is a chooting team from the Canadian Millitary, my money would go on them for all the first round hits!!!!
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Well don't refer to it as a sniper challenge. Refer to it as an unknown distance challenge then. Calculating wind is something you do for every shot wherther its kd or ukd, thats something that needs to be done no matter what type of shooting you are doing. There alot of shooters especially in the US that attend these type of shoots that are not professional snipers whether it be military or police and are not pretending to be something they are not, however they do want to challenge themselves and have a helluva fun time.
 
The logistics and volunteers needed to pull off the type of creep that your looking for are beyond managing with the volunteers and resources we have in a time efficient manner to ecompass all we have in store for competitors. You did have some pretty strong criticism about the event without even seeing the layout or event structure. You will be challenged beyond your ability, you will experience stress, you will engage targets close up and far far far away.

We are not running a sniper training camp, but simply trying to simulate some of the field conditions a sniper team would deal with in a fun, safe, competitive environment where it is our hopes to see people more concerned with competing against thier personal abilities and pushing beyond thier envelope. Don't try and compare this with the Military sniper challenge. It's not!!

We will have guys present that would spot you on your creep like you were wearing a beacon light anyways. :)

We are open to event suggestions, but with the suggestion offer up a solution encompassing the logistics of pulling it off as well as the number of volunteers required, and let us know if your willing to step up to the plate to help pull it off. Mutt tossed in a great idea the other day, thanks Mutt! I think we can make room for it!

Appreciate the shoot for what it is, alot of good shooters are giving up trigger time to make this an enjoyable experience for many. At the end of the day if it's not your bag, don't feel forced to attend.
 
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i think we need to remember that with any great shoot there is growing pains. it takes time to figure out what works and what doesnt work. the organizers have made it clear that this year is mostly for research and development and some friendly ball busting.
 
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