So I gotta ask ... Why so many 1911s??
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The Marine Corps has tapped Colt Defense LLC to make more than 10,000 new Close Quarter Battle Pistols for the service's elite special operations troops.
The July 19 contract, which has a total value of $22.5 million, brings an end to the Corps' exhaustive search for the top .45 caliber, 1911-style pistol to replace the fleet of worn-out Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command, or MARSOC, M45 pistols.
Colt Defense, based in Hartford, Conn., was the original maker of John Browning's revered 1911 design – a potent handgun that served all branches of the U.S. Military for more than 70 years until it was replaced by the M9 9mm pistol in 1985.
Marine officials, however, say they didn't play favorites.
"It was performance based. . . . We picked the best-performing pistol," said Charles Clark III, who oversees infantry weapons requirements at the Corps' Combat Development and Integration office in Quantico, Va. "There were three candidates that made the final round of consideration," but Clark would not discuss the competitors.
In addition to Colt, Springfield Armory's Full Size MC Operator and Smith & Wesson's 1911 design were also contenders, sources tell Military.com.
Marine testers placed a high priority on accuracy. The winner had to be capable of putting five-shot groups on target that "didn't exceed four inches by four inches at 25 yards" from an unsupported firing position, Clark said. Reliability and magazine life were other important factors in the decision.
The new Close Quarter Battle Pistols will be very similar to the M45s they are replacing this fall. They will have a rail for mounting lights, a custom trigger, a manual safety, improved ergonomics and glowing Tritium sights for low-light conditions.
The most visual difference is the Colt models will come in Coyote tan instead of gunmetal, Clark said.
The Corps began issuing custom 1911 .45 pistols to its elite Force Reconnaissance units in the 1990s. Gunsmiths at the Quantico Weapons Training Battalion Precision Weapons Section hand built them from old 1911s that had been replaced by the M9 in the mid 1980s.
The creation of the first MARSOC units in 2006 caused the requirement to grow from 400 pistols to 4,000 pistols. Finding enough surplus 1911s for the Precision Weapons Section's custom rebuilds became impractical.
"We realized that hand building 4,000 guns was not sustainable," Clark said.
Marine officials would not discuss the individual price for each new pistol. But the $22.5 million contract to Colt will allow the Corps to buy replacements for the new pistols as they wear out, Clark said. The contract also includes some money for spare parts.
"The contract is built so we can re-buy the approved acquisitions objective three times, so we can buy 4,000 guns three times," Clark said. "These pistols will be getting used a lot; deployed a lot so the guns are going to get shot out."
MARSOC operators stay on a rigorous deployment cycle, "so they fire a lot of rounds. It's a 15,000-round plus [training] work-up to a deployment," Clark said.
"It's more efficient to replace the guns over time instead of attempting to completely rebuild them."
Of course you do !!
The Marine Corps has tapped Colt Defense LLC to make more than 10,000 new Close Quarter Battle Pistols for the service's elite special operations troops.
The July 19 contract, which has a total value of $22.5 million, brings an end to the Corps' exhaustive search for the top .45 caliber, 1911-style pistol to replace the fleet of worn-out Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command, or MARSOC, M45 pistols.
Colt Defense, based in Hartford, Conn., was the original maker of John Browning's revered 1911 design – a potent handgun that served all branches of the U.S. Military for more than 70 years until it was replaced by the M9 9mm pistol in 1985.
Marine officials, however, say they didn't play favorites.
"It was performance based. . . . We picked the best-performing pistol," said Charles Clark III, who oversees infantry weapons requirements at the Corps' Combat Development and Integration office in Quantico, Va. "There were three candidates that made the final round of consideration," but Clark would not discuss the competitors.
In addition to Colt, Springfield Armory's Full Size MC Operator and Smith & Wesson's 1911 design were also contenders, sources tell Military.com.
Marine testers placed a high priority on accuracy. The winner had to be capable of putting five-shot groups on target that "didn't exceed four inches by four inches at 25 yards" from an unsupported firing position, Clark said. Reliability and magazine life were other important factors in the decision.
The new Close Quarter Battle Pistols will be very similar to the M45s they are replacing this fall. They will have a rail for mounting lights, a custom trigger, a manual safety, improved ergonomics and glowing Tritium sights for low-light conditions.
The most visual difference is the Colt models will come in Coyote tan instead of gunmetal, Clark said.
The Corps began issuing custom 1911 .45 pistols to its elite Force Reconnaissance units in the 1990s. Gunsmiths at the Quantico Weapons Training Battalion Precision Weapons Section hand built them from old 1911s that had been replaced by the M9 in the mid 1980s.
The creation of the first MARSOC units in 2006 caused the requirement to grow from 400 pistols to 4,000 pistols. Finding enough surplus 1911s for the Precision Weapons Section's custom rebuilds became impractical.
"We realized that hand building 4,000 guns was not sustainable," Clark said.
Marine officials would not discuss the individual price for each new pistol. But the $22.5 million contract to Colt will allow the Corps to buy replacements for the new pistols as they wear out, Clark said. The contract also includes some money for spare parts.
"The contract is built so we can re-buy the approved acquisitions objective three times, so we can buy 4,000 guns three times," Clark said. "These pistols will be getting used a lot; deployed a lot so the guns are going to get shot out."
MARSOC operators stay on a rigorous deployment cycle, "so they fire a lot of rounds. It's a 15,000-round plus [training] work-up to a deployment," Clark said.
"It's more efficient to replace the guns over time instead of attempting to completely rebuild them."
It would be fair to mention that MARSOC contract for 1911 was ordered for 1911, only because it was cheaper for them to maintain the tools they already had to work on 1911s (there is a special, gunsmith only section within the MARSOC) and not because 1911 is such magnificent platform to work with.
On top of that the unit's gunsmiths are already trained and certified on 1911s and re-training them on different platform would come with significant cost as well, not to mention the time factor.
And they work.
My post is short, high level and to deliver a basic message. Your trying to argue by bringing it down to a very low level technical detail discussion about things that really have no relevance what so ever. The point is simple .... people like this Benson character are not capable of strategic thinking and think at the peon level. We should not listen to or post his nonsense.
The haters are having a field day, glad they're having fun.
Double stack autos - PIN to 10, get 2 extra rnds to the 1911's eight, WOW.
Fewer controls - NEWs alert, No CCW, paper ain't gonna bite back if you forget the safety.
Half the weight - NEWs alert, No CCW, darn things sits on the range table or holster while at the range.
Folks need to realize all handguns are Range TOYS to all but LEO & MIL with different requirements.
Bringing up all the useless irrelevant issues for a range toy punching paper is silly.
Shoot whatever you're comfortable with, after all it is a TOY.
Double stack autos - PIN to 10, get 2 extra rnds to the 1911's eight, WOW.
Fewer controls - NEWs alert, No CCW, paper ain't gonna bite back if you forget the safety.
Half the weight - NEWs alert, No CCW, darn things sits on the range table or holster while at the range.
Folks need to realize all handguns are Range TOYS to all but LEO & MIL with different requirements.
Bringing up all the useless irrelevant issues for a range toy punching paper is silly.
Shoot whatever you're comfortable with, after all it is a TOY.
Went to the range last week and shot my G17 beside a gentleman using a 1911 with factory 230gr. ball. His pistol had 3 stoppages in the short time I was there, he let me shoot it and I had 1 as well. I've shot the piss out of my glock with every type of factory ammunition I could get my hands on and it's never malfunctioned. That's enough to make up my mind.
I only quoted my experience. I owned a 1911 last year and it had the same malfunctions, didn't matter what mags or ammunition I used. If you shot beside a gentleman who had all sorts of problems then so be it, that's your experience and will affect your opinion. I don't claim that the Glock is a better pistol or the 1911 is inferior, just stated my experience the other day. It's the same with my view of Sigs. I owned two and they were the worst pistols I've ever owned, does that mean they're bad as a whole? Probably not, but I had 2 that wouldn't run worth a damn and that's what gives me basis for my opinions, just like my opinion on Glock vs 1911.
Shooter1of38
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Mine have been feeding and cycling well. I only use Nighthawk or Chip McCormick power 10 mags (in the .45's)
I agree that these are 100 percent range toys and people should choose what they enjoy, not what they see in movies/video games.
Having said that I also have many polymer/new technology semis too.
I like them all!
I agree that these are 100 percent range toys and people should choose what they enjoy, not what they see in movies/video games.
Having said that I also have many polymer/new technology semis too.
I like them all!
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Now that maybe my candidate if I go 1911
Sure, they are still popular with many shooters. Industry behind 1911 is huge and still works pretty well as far as I'm concerned.
However one military contract for a small group of soldiers that were already using 1911 and didn't want to re-tool and re-train for different platform won't change the facts though.
1911 is becoming an obsolete platform as we speak. Does it mean anything to the guy who knows his pistol? Of course not...yet, Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers (if You don't know these names - they are top notch 1911 instructors) are saying that when You using 1911 for any serious application, You soon won't even notice any stoppages, because You are becoming so proficient in clearing them. Strangely enough, my rather recreational experience with 1911 says the same. Quite essential factor to take into account for anyone who's facing a choice of the new pistol for anything more than fun on the range.
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