So much JUNK

[R005t3r]

There was time when a majority of the milsurps available would have been laughed off the forums or you just wouldn't have the nerve to post them. When did a Siamese L.E. No.1 Mk.III become a $9000.- article? Persian Mauser beaters for $4-5K. Bitser and RC K98k being misrepresented as all matching or just tagged with a $2500.- price or a DDR VOPO being pawned off as an early factory original K98k. Sure, those of us who know what's what and have a network we can draw on for consultation just sigh and move on. We are trying to continue, build and foster this hobby. Misrepresenting an item, even after being politely informed and corrected, borders on criminal behaviour. Pricing is controlled by the market but lying through your teeth is wrong! We are supposed to be a community, not some cut throat bazaar. I realize my idealistic naiveté is showing. The forum rules clearly state an item may not be misrepresented. CGN is still relatively tolerable but GP is right off the rails.

8. All items listed for sale [WTS] or trade [OfferTT] must include an accurate description of the item at the time it is listed for sale or trade. Members may
consider the NRA grading system for “condition” when describing items for sale or trade in the EE.

9. Descriptions of all items must be factual. Items that have been altered from original factory condition or/and modified by any party other than the
original factory must be disclosed. All pictures posted must be the original pictures of the items owned by the sellers.

I have reported this behaviour and nothing is being done! However, should you offend someone or tread outside the woke agenda, there is a serious PeePee spank or you are simply banned.

 

[OkayShooter]

While I disagree with the gouging, people are free to list items at whatever they want.

 

[R005t3r]

While I disagree with the gouging, people are free to list items at whatever they want.

I agree. As I said, the market will dictate prices. It's the blatant fraud I have a problem with.

 

[Tarrantula]

While I disagree with the gouging, people are free to list items at whatever they want.

People can ask whatever they want, but I think OP is more concerned with intentional or unintentional misrepresentation of the item in the descriptions..

 

[DiMP]

I like the misrepresented through ineptitude personally lol
I was browsing another site yesterday for some SMLE parts and came across an "All Factory Original No4Mk1" for $1000.... looking at the one picture it is sporterized and with a cut barrel. It was almost as good as my favourite one I saw, a "Lee and Field 1918" (Ooooh, I don't have one of those!)

 

[R005t3r]

People can ask whatever they want, but I think OP is more concerned with intentional or unintentional misrepresentation of the item in the descriptions..

Quite correct. Ignorance can be forgiven and educated but when the item continues to be 'misrepresented' after correction; that I have a problem with. It reflects badly on us a community. We're not selling used cars.

 

[OkayShooter]

People can ask whatever they want, but I think OP is more concerned with intentional or unintentional misrepresentation of the item in the descriptions..

Well you know what people are like. I can slap the Luepold mounts and double extention rings on my K98 and people would think it's a K98 Sniper. You look at the yard sale and anything old is antiques or primitive, when it's just old junk

Its like that meme.. I know what I have and it's worth.

 

[partial]

There are 3 Persian 98/29 Mauser rifles for sale on GP, and neither one would I consider as being junk.
Prices range from $2250 to $5250.

How often to you see these rifles for sale?

 

[Janeau]

I agree. As I said, the market will dictate prices. It's the blatant fraud I have a problem with.

It’s not the first and last time, people think what they own is a rare, one of a kind milsups or antique.
Lack of knowledge and expectation of high value is in part, the culprit.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Most people are not educated on milsurps. Most do not know what to look for or what makes specific variations valuable. Most simply know the phrase 'all matching' equals more value, and don't understand what it means or why it is more valuable. People see a all matching Lee Enfield No. 1 Mk. 3* in great shape for 1600$ and think hey my rifle is a No. 1 Mk. 3* therefore it must be worth 1600$ as well, despite being in much worse condition and mismatched. But because enough buyers don't know what they are looking at either they purchase it for that price as well.

 

[R005t3r]

There are 3 Persian 98/29 Mauser rifles for sale on GP, and neither one would I consider as being junk.
Prices range from $2250 to $5250.

How often to you see these rifles for sale?

Compared to this example, for the $5K price tag, they are JUNK.

 

[fritzhanzel]

Prices fluctuate a lot, especially for LE. So many around. If a buyer does not do his/her/it due diligence, can't help him/her/it.

 

[R005t3r]

Most people are not educated on milsurps. Most do not know what to look for or what makes specific variations valuable. Most simply know the phrase 'all matching' equals more value, and don't understand what it means or why it is more valuable. People see a all matching Lee Enfield No. 1 Mk. 3* in great shape for 1600$ and think hey my rifle is a No. 1 Mk. 3* therefore it must be worth 1600$ as well, despite being in much worse condition and mismatched. But because enough buyers don't know what they are looking at either they purchase it for that price as well.

I understand completely but after you have been disabused of your misconception wouldn't it behoove you to make the appropriate changes? The issue isn't ignorance, as I have previously stated, it is conscious misrepresentation and the fact that our moderators do nothing about it; even though it is clearly stated in the rules.

 

[Suther]

Most people are not educated on milsurps. Most do not know what to look for or what makes specific variations valuable. Most simply know the phrase 'all matching' equals more value, and don't understand what it means or why it is more valuable. People see a all matching Lee Enfield No. 1 Mk. 3* in great shape for 1600$ and think hey my rifle is a No. 1 Mk. 3* therefore it must be worth 1600$ as well, despite being in much worse condition and mismatched. But because enough buyers don't know what they are looking at either they purchase it for that price as well.

I have troubles believing "most" people selling a milsurp doesn't know what "numbers matching" means. I think you're giving to much credit to ignorance and not enough to intentional malice.

That said, i don't have a lot of sympathy for anyone who will drop $2500+ on a milsurp without doing their due diligence. Know what you're buying, between misleading ads, outright fakes (anyone can go buy a nazi eagle stamp online and add that to a Mauser to claim nazi provenance for example), and the odd person who doesn't know what they have, you'd be stupid to drop big money on a milsurp without either an expert opinion or doing your own research.

 

[tokguy]

It is a trying time to have this hobby. Inflation has allowed prices to rise...but not at anything along what I would call a sane rate.
I did notice the amount of semiauto battle rifles for sale has receeded, as have the prices, almost to preban levels.
Can still get a deal, but it's getting hard for sure. A lot of tough looking bolt actions have surfaced lately.
I don't really see my value collection wise as appreciated much...it's a bubble IMO.
Some folks don't see it that way...their call I suspect

 

[Claven2]

Fwiw, I don't normally think of CGN as a website devoted to forwarding the woke agenda... Just saying.

 

[hsatimmy]

Fwiw, I don't normally think of CGN as a website devoted to forwarding the woke agenda... Just saying.

I don't think anyone including you knows what you are saying

 

[Nestor]

I think that I've been priced out of this market around 4-5 years ago actually. For this reason I can't really give you any, sensible answer, except that people were always selling items that were not accurately described.
Hoping that the rest of us may be able to find and afford what they are looking for.

 

[Claven2]

I don't think anyone including you knows what you are saying

I think woke is a matter of perspective, and I think this place is a LOT less woke than, say, rabble.ca is.

If you think this place is too woke, nobody is forcing you to be here.

 

[Potashminer]

I have troubles believing "most" people selling a milsurp doesn't know what "numbers matching" means. I think you're giving to much credit to ignorance and not enough to intentional malice.

That said, i don't have a lot of sympathy for anyone who will drop $2500+ on a milsurp without doing their due diligence. Know what you're buying, between misleading ads, outright fakes (anyone can go buy a nazi eagle stamp online and add that to a Mauser to claim nazi provenance for example), and the odd person who doesn't know what they have, you'd be stupid to drop big money on a milsurp without either an expert opinion or doing your own research.

For sure is about whether the buyer does his research or not - as far as "numbers matching" - I have reached out to several posters on here who did not realize there are FOUR places on a P14 that have the serial number stamped - not just on the bolt handle and on the receiver. And then most all of the rest of the 80 odd parts (coil springs and screws normally excepted) have a maker's stamp that ought to go along with that receiver, to be "all matching". Such a thing might not even exist any more - but does not make a random rifle that happens to be at hand to be worth what some of us would pay for a genuine "all matching" - and there should be a LOT of questions to establish that to be genuine, before money changes hands.

Versus poorly done (or well done) milsurp conversions with bolt handles cut to be "scope friendly" and the receivers drilled and tapped, yet the rifle described as "ideal to restore", or not obvious at all how the original "swing over the top" safety was supposed to work when a scope gets installed. Is up to the buyer - sooner or later someone gets left holding that "hot potato" - whether that buyer, or someone he can sell it to. But I think is all on the buyer - they bought what they bought at whatever price - and got what they bought - whether that was what they thought it was or not.

Might be a shocking thought to some people, but some of us have many hundreds or thousands of dollars of reference books, that allow us to sort though what belongs with what - if those authors were correct. Or some will spend silly amounts of money, and just claim it to be what they think it is. As an example, for the common Lee Enfield No. 4 or No. 5 rifle, was 9 receiver patterns used at one time or another, 9 different variations of rear sight used by the six factories in various years, and at least four different kinds of wood used - and most all will interchange with the other - so is a specific combination that goes together to be "correct" and then multiple combinations that "work", but never existed in anyone's military.