So what does everybody think about the new ISPC classifications?

omen said:
I just noticed, last year's Ont provincials would have been deemed a 'soft classifier' in Production under this system, haha! The Quebec provincials would have made it, but just by 3 stage points...

This 90% rule seems hokey... This basically means that any technically difficult matches, where people are expected to screw up and the winner will be the one who screws up the least will never be classifiers... Ohh, I know, IN THEORY, they could be, but in practice, I doubt it.

Funny, no one was asked to vote on THIS aspect of it, this just appeared out of the blue, without any public consultation (that I'm aware of). Hmm... :bsFlag:

The 90% rule does not apply to Level 3's (where we would expect 5 or 6 top shooters per division). It's a saferty check for Level 2's where there may only be 2. Match winners that drop allot of match points are the single biggest contributer to Soft Classifiers...so now you;ll have to be classed on your skill...not someone elses bad luck (gun jam...hung over...)

regarding out of the blue...no...

It was outlined in the later version(s) of the overview...and it was specifically stated that we were not asking anyone to vote on this. It's well within our mandate to make minor changes to existing (or new) policy without a "public consultation"
 
pmt said:
But this is an Ontario glass of water - it's half full, it's half empty, the glass is too big, this water stinks. :onCrack:

Section Coordinator hat comes off :rolleyes: (so this is just one member talking to another)

It pretty easy to stand on the sidelines and lob fireballs...but if you want people to listen...maybe get off your butt and help out.

Otherwise you just look like an armchair quaterback.

Hat back on..."and thank you for your continued support in our efforts to impove the situation. Your contributions and feedback are geatly appretiated" ;)
 
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As of 23 Nov 2006 (RA match) I acheived enough to go to "M" (hard "M") ... In Feb I am told everything is on hold... now new rules are coming, and then retro rankings.

I think it sucks... but that is only my opinion. I could care less about looking for ICS to bring up my score, ICS is not regional... I guess I'll settle to be a happy "Unclassified"

So the question now is? If you get a whole bunch of "Unclassified" shooters doing well at matches... What does that do to the ranking system... does it make it "Softer"??? more diluted? or just another "Can-O-Worms"
 
Quigley said:
Section Coordinator hat comes off :rolleyes: (so this is just one member talking to another)

It pretty easy to stand on the sidelines and lob fireballs...but if you want people to listen...maybe get off your butt and help out.

Otherwise you just look like an armchair quaterback.

Hat back on..."and thank you for your continued support in our efforts to impove the situation. Your contributions and feedback are geatly appretiated" ;)
I do get off my butt to help out in my own small way. I RO weekly at our club matches, and I RO at 2 or 3 L2's and 1 L3 each year, as well as sticking around for the teardowns, but i don't need to tell you that - you've seen me there.

As far as my continued support through contributions and feedback - I don't believe you - you don't like any of my feedback or sarcastic comments :evil:

IMHO you are making it more complicated than it needs to be. A few ideas were put to you (the BOD) by others, that would have been simple to initiate and didn't require a small team of mathematicians to calculate.

Back on topic

This thread asked "So what does everybody think about the new IPSC classifications?"
My answer: I don't like it. :puke:
 
yeah I dont like it much either. I would prefer to just stay where Im at. I dont like the idea that basically everything I shot last year is now worthless. All because some M or GM was whining because he felt that other GMs arent equal.

I dont get this whole, if the GM or M had a bad match it shouldnt count in people moving up. Its called sports for a reason. It seems really unreasonable that matches shouldnt count unless the top people shoot at the top level. If a top shooter shoots badily that should be there problem, if I advance and they go down...so what its just a game right?

It seems an awful lot like the new system is designed to keep an elite few at the top while making it much more difficult for us low level peons to challenge them.

am I missing something?

Plus why is a regional classification taking results from a national system? Is Ontario regional or what? Just seems like another roadblock against advancement.
 
I'm 52 years old and have no dreams of becoming a GM or M because I know I can never achieve this due to the fact I got a late start in this game. I have been in the game for a couple of years and I am having a ton of fun meeting people and shooting and I can say that there is no one I have met at a match that has not been a great reflection of the sport. I am here to enjoy the comeradery and such that goes with the sport. In fact I get more of a kick out of designing matches and stages just as much as shooting them.

There is no paycheck at the end of the day for me other than a few more new shooters faces and good friends I meet and make on the way.

Lets just get out on the range and have some fun and help others new to the sport do the same.
 
USP said:
I dont like the idea that basically everything I shot last year is now worthless. All because some M or GM was whining because he felt that other GMs arent equal.

Boy you're a challenge...

The new calssifictions are being calculated using all matches in the last 12 months...so exactly why would you think that the matches you shot in the last year are lost?

USP said:
It seems an awful lot like the new system is designed to keep an elite few at the top while making it much more difficult for us low level peons to challenge them.

:rolleyes:

I'm not even going to waste my time ansering this


USP said:
Plus why is a regional classification taking results from a national system? Is Ontario regional or what? Just seems like another roadblock against advancement.

No...Ontario is not a region. Canada is a region. Ontario does not exist outside the world of IPSC Canada. you belong to the International organization through your officilation with IPSC Canada
 
Quigley said:
:rolleyes:

I'm not even going to waste my time ansering this


I thought the major reason why some felt there was need for a change was because some felt that some shouldnt have made it to M or GM right? Is this not correct? The whole concept of "soft" qualifier right? But by eliminating soft qualifiers arent you in fact making it more difficult for people to advance? While at the same time keeping those who did advance under the old system more or less in place near the top?

I dont get this idea that if somebody is "hung over" or has a gun jam...their bad results shouldnt count.

I dont see my questions as a challenge...Im just asking a few questions.. I thought you might have the answer as other people ive talked to sure dont.

:wave:
 
pmt said:
I do get off my butt to help out in my own small way. I RO weekly at our club matches, and I RO at 2 or 3 L2's and 1 L3 each year, as well as sticking around for the teardowns, but i don't need to tell you that - you've seen me there.

Well then...I owe you an apology (and I'm not being a smart ass) Looks like my sarcasm was misdirecet...

I had no idea that you were an RO...

I have little or no time for people that complain...and don't lift a finger to help out (and my opinion won't change on that) but I obvioulsy lumped you in the wrong group...so I do apologise.

...but I stand by the rest of what I said ;)
 
USP said:
I thought the major reason why some felt there was need for a change was because some felt that some shouldnt have made it to M or GM right? Is this not correct?

No...that's not correct. An inaccurate classifiction system effects everyone. Stop picking on the GM's. We gave people from C class and up that are classed higher than their actuall skill level...and it's time we all stopped kidding ourselves. If we're going to have a system...we may as well have one that works

USP said:
But by eliminating soft qualifiers arent you in fact making it more difficult for people to advance?

Yes...

USP said:
While at the same time keeping those who did advance under the old system more or less in place near the top?

No...you seem to think that this new system favoures GM's and M's...not the case at all.

USP said:
I dont get this idea that if somebody is "hung over" or has a gun jam...their bad results shouldnt count.

Their bad results (or bad luck)...if those results are not representative of their true skill level...should not be used to artificially inflate your results. So they won't be counted for you...or for them...
 
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Quigley said:
No...that's not correct. In inaccurate classifiction system effects everyone. Stop picking on the GM's. We gave people from C class and up that are classed higher than their actuall skill level...and it's time we all stopped kidding ourselves. If we're going to have a system...we may as well have one that works



Yes...and more accurate



No...you seem to think that this new system favoures GM's and M's...not the case at all.



Their bad results...if those results are not representative of their true skill level...should not be used to artificially inflate your results. So they won't be counted for you...or for them...[/QUOTE]


thanks for the answers. But dont you think that this last bit is almost like enforced protectionism? Whereby if any top people have a bad day then its meaningless for scores. Say the top guy had a really bad day...and you had a really good day.. but it still doesnt count because the system reflects the theory that top shooters must always be top shooters, any other scores should be disregared as anomalies right?


Shouldnt it be a two way street though? If a match doesnt count because the top guy shoots poorly, shouldnt the top guy automatically have his overall percentage decreased to reflect this poor match as well? :confused:
 
Popurhedoff said:
As of 23 Nov 2006 (RA match) I acheived enough to go to "M" (hard "M") ... In Feb I am told everything is on hold... now new rules are coming, and then retro rankings.

Pat...if you are one of the top shooters in the Division...that will be reflected in the new system...
 
USP said:
thanks for the answers. But dont you think that this last bit is almost like enforced protectionism? Whereby if any top people have a bad day then its meaningless for scores.

How does comparing yourself againts shooters that have crappy matches make you a better shooter? Would it make you feel the least bit proud of your accomplishment...

Would it inspire you to get better if you got bumped up because you happen to hit enough matches where the top shooters had crappy matches :confused:

USP said:
Shouldnt it be a two way street though? If a match doesnt count because the top guy shoots poorly, shouldnt the top guy automatically have his overall percentage decreased to reflect this poor match as well? :confused:

With a floating system...this will happen. If someone (and it doens't have to be a top shooter) is shooting beyond their skill level...that will be reflected in the results...and addressed in the semi annual updates
 
././

Ladies and Gents

Ranking....GM :onCrack: or a D, C or M.....hmmm. :slap:

How about we all just let it rest. It’s a hobby and or a sport to some. More on a hobby side for most and I mean most, and a sport for a few.

The ones that consider this a sport can be found on results list to include but not limited to the Cdn National (multiple years), Pan Americans, and the Worlds.

Anything else is just……:wave: the right to brag or in this case #####. This is a Provincial Ranking System "Only" holds no water anywhere but here in Ont. So if you are that concerned about being the big GM…D shooter in Ont. Stop #####ing and get your ass out and improve your skills to climb this crazy provincial ranking ladder instead of trying to find a easier way to change the rules to bump your position.

Cheers
BMW
 
not perfect, but I like it

USP said:
yeah I dont like it much either. I would prefer to just stay where Im at. I dont like the idea that basically everything I shot last year is now worthless. All because some M or GM was whining because he felt that other GMs arent equal.

I dont get this whole, if the GM or M had a bad match it shouldnt count in people moving up. Its called sports for a reason. It seems really unreasonable that matches shouldnt count unless the top people shoot at the top level. If a top shooter shoots badily that should be there problem, if I advance and they go down...so what its just a game right?

It seems an awful lot like the new system is designed to keep an elite few at the top while making it much more difficult for us low level peons to challenge them.

am I missing something?

Look, it's just a hobby, but it's human nature for someone to feel good & proud when they move up a class or win 1st, 2nd or 3rd in their division at a level 3 match.
I don't know if I'll ever be a GM, probably not, unless really put in the time to practice way more than I do !

Some of you know, I was moved up to "M" class last year after winning a level 2 match, which should have been considered a soft classifier & under this new system it would have & I would still be in "A" class, where I belong.
I didn't even shoot that great myself, with 2 mikes on the day. The GM & M shooters that day had really bad shoots (GM had like 6 or 7 mikes, maybe trying a new gun) & not to knock anyone, but i believe even he's a GM due to soft classifier, which added to the possibility of me being able to pull off a win. Actually, I noticed that others were upgraded & some classed for the first time at that match. Now they're all competing among better skilled shooters at level 2's & 3's & not likely to finish well in that respect.

On my best days when the top GM's are there, I can pull off high 70's & once in a blue moon, low 80's in percntages, not t mention some of my more forgetable performances (like the Nats :puke: . So, I can maybe claim to be a good "A" class shooter. I hit 75% to Mike B. at barrie's 3 gun match (in handgun part :dancingbanana:, total of 3 stages). :eek:
And why do I care ? because I want a class that I deserve. I just believe in whats right. If I'm a D, than I'm a freak'n D! if I'm a "A" than I'm an "A"ss...haha.
Don't lie to yourself or others, if you came home from the provincials w/ 1st in your class & a nice shiny plaque to show off, you'd be smiling & bragging all the way home :runaway: , and so you should ! but if you attended the match that I won, you would of likely also been moved up a class wrongfully & now, instead of being 1st in your class (which you so truly deserved) you're like 10th place of the higher class & your f'n pissed :eek: :( & upset, why, cause it's human nature & we all like to shoot for fun yes, but the class keeps it interesting & a way to see if you're improving, etc....
Even if a soft GM performance happens, you still see how you did that day, that day will not be taken away from you, you can enjoy it, if you did great, it just will not move people up or down wrongfully & will preserve your true class level & will not lower a GM or M, cause of a mishap.

Go look at last years provincials, the top 4 M class finished less than 70%, with a couple of A shooters above them, even if Mike B. was not there, they still be only at low 80's% (i was 4th) if made major :rolleyes: :eek: maybe 1st M, and even if that happened, I wouldn't be happy to accept 1st "M" award, when I truely should still probably of been 3 or 4th "A" or whatever
Why is that, cause the real "M" have softly been upgraded to "GM"

Let's all have fun & enjoy this extremely fun game :rockOn: :dancingbanana: :runaway:

Quigley.... I hope I helped put some insite into this matter.
 
ENSHOOTER said:
Enough Talk! Let’s shoot!


No kidding!

Picking up Diablo's new OD G17 today!!

WOOT!

BTW........he is at the VERY BOTTOM of the pack in D class. But at 13 he does not really give a ####. He shoots for FUN and to spend time with dear old pops.

Perhaps we can all look through the eyes of a kid again and HAVE SOME FUN!!
 
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