so what with all the cheap ar15,s

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For what it's worth, I felt the original premise of the thread was a valid and honest question.

It was going well until... well you know.

I never got the impression that badboybeeson was knocking cheap AR's or their owners; he just has a different pov and was asking a legitimate question.
 
Questar said:
I think you have summed it up very nicely.

After reading through this thread what really stood out for me is that there seems to be a tendency to associate the word "cheap" with the idea that it means poor quality. It should NOT.

Cheap is a relative term... it only has meaning as it relates to the price of something else you compare it to. A $700 rifle is NOT "cheap" in relation to a $5.99 happy meal... but it is "cheaper" than a $1,500 rifle. Cheap should simply refer to the price of an item as it compares to it's competitors and it should in no way automatically mean that the item is of poor quality... though there definitely seems to be that implication for many.

It may well be that SOMETIMES a "cheap" item is also of poor quality but that is NOT always the case... in fact sometimes an expensive item can be of poor quality... price does NOT necessarily equate to quality.

I have never owned or fired the NEA rifles but from what I've read there is absolutely NOTHING WRONG with the quality of their product. The CORE15 product is excellent quality product from what I've seen and we looked very closely at it during the SHOT show. Poor quality can come from all parts of the market and at all price ranges... every product needs to be judged on it's actual merits and not on it's price point.

I haven't owned any Norinco AR's but I do NOT put them down... in fact when it was first announced (years ago) that there was a Chinese AR-15 coming that was going to sell for $600 to $700 I was excited... because I knew that it would open the AR market to hundreds if not thousands of new AR buyers who could afford a $600 gun but who couldn't afford a $1,500 to $2,000 AR (which is where prices were back then). The Norinco AR's may have been the best thing to happen to our market... and our business. In fact they prove that a cheap price does NOT have to mean poor quality.

People make purchase decisions for many different reasons... price is always a factor but so is "name", quality, features, options, etc.. If all that mattered was price then everyone would be driving the same car and it would be the cheapest car in the marketplace. Last time I looked there were a lot of different cars being made, with infinite options, colours, designs and price ranges... the "cheap" ones may not be the same as the expensive ones, but that not mean that the "cheap" ones are poor in quality... firearms are no different.

Instead of "cheap" why not use the words "less expensive". Just because something costs less doesn't mean it's of poor quality... just because you buy the most expensive item doesn't mean you have purchased the best quality item either.

Just my thoughts ;)
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The idea of an affordable AR to get people into the market is a great idea, the problem is that the trend among Canadian black rifle community is that they just buy a second Norinco just perhaps in a different barrel length.

They don't however go about building a nice AR like a Daniel Defense, Colt, KAC, LMT, etc. CGN is an immature community, the American rifle community has it's faults but as a whole has moved forward and now more and more individuals are getting away from the RRA, Bushmasters, and what not that everyone was quick to jump on post assault weapons ban and now seek to build high quality rifles.

The fact is that the Canadian market is quite significantly smaller and the level of maturity just hasn't come around yet. It doesn't help that CGN is and unmoderated hub of the community. If your an AR owner in Canada or interested in black rifles there are far better American forums to get your education and advice from on topics of the AR15. One of the better ones I'd argue is M4Carbine.net
 
shooterbuck said:
Well I guess you can lump me into the " low class retard" category then fellas cause I happen to really like my NEA. I only have 500 rounds through it so far but it does go bang every time. It's also quite accurate in the hands of a retard. I have no mall ninja illusions of fending off the zombie apocalypse nor do I fantasize about saving the country in Patrick Swayzesque Red Dawn heroics.
I just happen to enjoy blowing off some steam shooting paper.

I am however a typical mid thirties Father, Husband and employee that has many, many responsibilities. Both my wife and I are educated professionals and together we make a very good living compared to most. The fact that at this point in my life I could not, in good conscience pay 3-4k on a personal toy does not burden me much. I would rather pay the yearly fees at our lake lot in Slave, take my wife to places like Mexico and Brazil, enjoy ski vacations in Fairmont with my children. As point of fact I am exactly the guy the the two pretentious, self righteous douchbags are talking about. Don't worry about me fellas, If I don't sleep tonight it will be because I leave for vacation in two days, not because a couple of mall ninjas think I am a low class retard.

Btw Mr Beeson, don't concern yourself any further with how I spend my money. You sure as f**k will never see a nickel of it.

Cheers
SB
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SB I never said you were a retard because you favor you time with your kids and wife,weeks of vactation at the lake over buying a quality AR15.
I simply asked why people with lots of disposable income are still buying cheaply made AR,s.
Now the stuff the other guy said has nothing to do with me.
But ill say one thing, call me a douchbag and a mall ninja one more time and it will be a permanent vacation you be leaving on in 2days.
 
badboybeeson said:
So let me get this stright.
I ask a simple civil question.
What's us with people buying cheap AR,s and now your saying you don't want to buy anything from our company.
Maybe if I was rude too you would that make you feel better.
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I don't think it was your simple question in the first post that has got people saying they won't be buying from you. I think it has to do with your whole, "if your house is worth $400K why would you buy a cheap(er) AR " kind of sentiment. Like Farmer Harv says, it is about priorities, and when you start questioning why AR owners don't want to "ride in style" instead of taking the "short bus", you come off as slagging their priorities.
 
mlehtovaara said:
Full Retard doesn't even begin to describe these rants!

A few of the nonsensical things I have taken from this:

1 - He doesn't care what you buy.

2 - People who buy cheap stuff are ignorant and uneducated.

3 - It's Ok to buy cheap stuff if thats what you can afford, but if you make more than 30000 a year you can't buy a Norc, its too cheap.

4 - However if you can't afford better than a Norc, you shouldn't be given a PAL because you are bad for the shooting sports and only provide ammo for the anti's.(See #1)

5 - Because criminals buy something we should boycott the product? Guns? Or just cheap ones?

6 - People never change. If they were involved in criminal things in high school there is no chance they can ever straighten up.

7 - If the RCMP deem an individual safe to own guns, this mans past experiences with said individual should trump the RCMP criminal records check.

8 - Only squeaky clean, educated, elitists should be able to own guns, and they must cost 1 million dollars each.

Anything I missed?
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Something about AR's being safe from increased gun control if less people own them and the school shooters and gang bangers only use SKS's.....:bsFlag:
 
Tell you the truth, BBB's thread got dickwaded by leibers post and people lumped him into the same category. I don't think his intentions were quite the same.

Keep that in mind people.
 
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heckler said:
I agree with this but would add it may be economic related more lately.

Personally I would sooner do without than buy cheap brand whatever___________. I like high end stuff and work hard to achive it...there i said it

That being said I totally get why people buy cheaper,they may be finacially limited and that is the best they can afford--at least they want to play our game.
We all probably have learned the " you get what you pay for lesson " and I got stung every time I cheaped out. Not saying there are not some really affordable great bang for buck deals out there but....
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heckler said:
Forgot to add that not everybody is as serious about shooting sports as others
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This is a first for me...yes I am quoteing myself

I am not an eliteist but I am a firm believer in buying the best I can afford.If that was a Norinco..so be it. I also consider my shooting hobby to be high on the priority list after the bills are paid. I am fortunate that I am at the point in my hobby that the work I do for others in shooting sports pays for my toys.

I also do not believe that the OP (BBB) was, or is intending to come across as an eliteist either. I kind of see his point asking why people do not buy better product when they are capable financially.

When there is the oportunity to buy a Canadian made product for slightly more than a Norinco I do not understand why we are not supporting manufacturers in our own backyard. To me a couple hundred bucks more spent " in house " is a win for all Canadians.

I will not say we should take the American attitude of buy USA only and NO importing from China(firearms related items)...but given the choice I will buy locally or at least Canadian supplier/manufacturer as offten as I can. I will continue to deal with BBB due to the fact I don't think his posts were meant to be malicious or eliteiest. Perhaps poorly worded but I feel he was only trying to promt the answers he was seeking,and he is a Canadian dealer.

Bottom line:
I would like to see everyone that wants to own an AR get one...get out and enjoy it,get others into the sport and conduct themselves professionally while they are at it.
More firearms owners the stronger our voice is heard with the powers that be no matter thier political stripe. A lot of people can affect change even on a Gov't that is not sympathetic to our cause.
All of the above is not meant to inflame or offend anyone but....sometimes it is difficult to put to paper our thoughts and beliefs without doing so.
 
Come on here on CGN people are complaining trying to find night vision for under a thousand bucks, then when someone actually says price is no concern and wants a source for Gen3 night vision he's met with opposition and everyone asking him why he "needs" Gen3 night vision.

Meanwhile, the god damn airsoft community is investing and buying into Gen3 night vision, thermal monoculars, and IR lasers, etc.

It's like buy an Arc'teryx Jacket that will last you a good 10 years or possibly even lifetime but whereas the CGN community would rather buy crappy replica of a TAD jacket made in China or something that has the stitching coming undone from Condor.

Save up an extra month and get an NEA or sell some old stuff you don't use and you could probably find the extra $500 to buy an LMT.

The AR is not going to become non-restricted because of a bunch of $600 Norincos.
 
badboybeeson said:
SB I never said you were a retard because you favor you time with your kids and wife,weeks of vactation at the lake over buying a quality AR15.
I simply asked why people with lots of disposable income are still buying cheaply made AR,s.
Now the stuff the other guy said has nothing to do with me.
But ill say one thing, call me a douchbag and a mall ninja one more time and it will be a permanent vacation you be leaving on in 2days.
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taeek a deap brth theirr Bad Boy relax adn drp the treats
 
Runningfool said:
I don't think it was your simple question in the first post that has got people saying they won't be buying from you. I think it has to do with your whole, "if your house is worth $400K why would you buy a cheap(er) AR " kind of sentiment. Like Farmer Harv says, it is about priorities, and when you start questioning why AR owners don't want to "ride in style" instead of taking the "short bus", you come off as slagging their priorities.
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The 400k remark was aimed at the shooters that have wealth. I wanted to ask why many still by cheap AR,s. I got some answeres,A not our only sport,B can't hunt with them,C don't see how a Nork is any better then a LMT or KaC.
The short bus comment was me trying to be funny.
 
badboybeeson said:
The 400k remark was aimed at the shooters that have wealth. I wanted to ask why many still by cheap AR,s. I got some answeres,A not our only sport,B can't hunt with them,C don't see how a Nork is any better then a LMT or KaC.
The short bus comment was me trying to be funny.
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I think as a supporting dealer you should keep comments such as "short bus" to a minimum, as some people may not find it as funny as you did. You have a lot more to lose here than the rest of us, and a dumb ass "short bus" comment or a threatening comment like the one below could quite possibly hurt your sales.

at least until the moderators delete this thread...
badboybeeson said:
SB I never said you were a retard because you favor you time with your kids and wife,weeks of vactation at the lake over buying a quality AR15.
I simply asked why people with lots of disposable income are still buying cheaply made AR,s.
Now the stuff the other guy said has nothing to do with me.
But ill say one thing, call me a douchbag and a mall ninja one more time and it will be a permanent vacation you be leaving on in 2days.
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wow uh yeah gonna ignore some elements on here,

bbb I believe many who could afford more go with less because less is often good enough( which is often the difference between two guys that make the same $$ but one owns his home and car with money in the bank, the other has all the best "stuff" but but can't "afford" all the luxuries the first guy can). I own some 2-3k guns, I wont own a 2-3 k ar, its got less "value to me" my guns get used wherever I want, whenever I want(more or less). A ar can hone my skill and relieve stress but I don't need a top tier ar to do that. that being said if ars were non restricted I would pony up. thats my "value" system at play, it will differ from others.

I grew up shooting, i knew what shooting entailed, i knew i enjoyed it(without putting up my hard earned cash to find out). I love blasting clays when I decided to upgrade to a nice clay/open field gun (686) i had the experience to justify it. my 870 served me well as "my" first gun when I got my stuff together as a adult and started buying my own guns. I still have it and will for the foreseeable future(ducks and deer). Had i been brand new to shooting I would think its pretty unreasonable to say if you hadn't bought your first 4 guns you could have had the 686 first, and yeah i could have done 2 of the 4 or 5 different types of shooting I enjoy.

saying why don't you just hold out for a better one is kind of unrealistic. be it guns, bikes, skiing, skydiving etc there is starter gear for a reason, for some that will be all they ever need for others not so getting out and trying that sport leads you to make that call.

IF a 700 dollar norc drags people in who would've never otherwise picked up a gun I am all for it.

from your perspective i wouldembrace them. Look at it like a dealer the 700 dollar norc gets you hooked then I show you the pure s**t:p and get repeat business instead of none.
 
Holy $hit boys, this is just....wow. One of these days I'm gonna have to get me one of these controversial welfare norincos, throw it around the range, rip 500 rounds through it, call it a dirty commie and piss on it to cool it off when it starts smoking. If it lives that's "serious" enough for my sport shooting use.
 
I really had my heart set to use a S&J barrel on an AR-15 (when they come back in stock) but they're so cheap (price wise) compared to whats out there that it must be bad quality! d:h:







Naa I'll still buy one.
 
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Luke_P said:
bbb I believe many who could afford more go with less because less is often good enough( which is often the difference between two guys that make the same $$ but one owns his home and car with money in the bank, the other has all the best "stuff" but but can't "afford" all the luxuries the first guy can). I own some 2-3k guns, I wont own a 2-3 k ar, its got less "value to me" my guns get used wherever I want, whenever I want(more or less). A ar can hone my skill and relieve stress but I don't need a top tier ar to do that. that being said if ars were non restricted I would pony up. thats my "value" system at play, it will differ from others.
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And this is why the never will be...
 
pop a balloon in this thread and CGN might just blow up... But to BBB some wealthy people find value in lower priced things, like getting more for your money. Infact alot of my wealthier friends prefer cheaping out over splurging. Maybe its because they know their money will only last so long or they just like getting more out of it but thats how they act. I sold my old Toyota pickup last spring and one of the buyers showed up in a 2 yr. old Mega cab ram diesel with a lift, 20's, Fab Fours bumpers, it was piped and decked right out etc. His rear bumper is worth more than I was asking for the truck and he wanted it to haul his tricked out Rhino around. He refused to pay more than $2000 and simply walked away cuz $2500 was too much. Some people are just that way. To everyone else: I thank you from the bottom of my heart for the wonderful entertainment tonight! Good show and good night!
 
When a Carpenter needs a hammer, he buys the hammer of hammers because he's going to use it all day long. Its gotta take the stress and the abuse it will see on the jobsite every day. It has to be light with a comfortable grip for prolonged use. He will spend the money to have the best.

When Joe Blow needs a hammer to do the occasional job around the house, he buys an affordable hammer that he feels will accomplish most tasks. It just has to work. He will not spend the money to get the fancy hammer, because a lesser hammer will do.

A serious shooter/competitor will buy the Colt.

A once in a while shooter/novice will buy the Norc.

Both will go bang and hit the target, its just that the Colt will run better, faster, longer. That said, if you can't swing worth $hit, the fancy hammer won't help much;)
 
J996 said:
A serious shooter/competitor will buy the Colt.

A once in a while shooter/novice will buy the Norc.

Both will go bang and hit the target, its just that the Colt will run better, faster, longer. That said, if you can't swing worth $hit, the fancy hammer won't help much;)
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How does this play into quality vs quantity though?
 
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