Solution to the 80% AR lower?
- Thread starter Scarecrow
- Start date
I understand. FWIW, I wasn't looking for ways around the restrictions, just more cottage industry/hobby level friendly methods of making parts and maybe a handgun frame or two. I have enough to lose that I'm not keen to be a victim of the state over small things like this. Maybe when the revolution gets going, but before then I'm not interested in having my life destroyed.
Mark
- Location
- Comox Valley
Would it be illegal to own the mold kit in Canada, but not have made any unregistered lowers?? Just a question?
Shouldn't be, you can own full auto parts legally as long as you don't install them in the firearm. Historically, parts themselves have almost never been subject to restriction or regulation, only receivers (or whatever is considered the 'firearm'). That is part of what made the 80% receiver ruling so egregious.
Mark
Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ground Zero
According to the Hasselwander ruling, if you have the parts to convert a firearm to full auto, and you have the firearm, you have a full auto. Since possession is a strict liability offence, it doesn't matter in the least whether or not you ever intend to install them.
Given the fact that the RCMP believe that an 80% lower is "readily convertible" to a full auto capable lower, I see no reason why possession of a mold and a suitable material to fill the mold and make a receiver would not also be deemed readily convertible. Filling a mold with resin is a far simpler process, and far cheaper requiring fewer tools and know how, than milling one out of a block of aluminum.
I think that this is stretching it way too far, but as a judge has yet to confirm the validity of the prohibition on 80% lowers, who is to say?
I would love to have a complete collection of all the things the RCMP thinks are prohibited. It makes me giddy thinking about it.
Don't forget the blowgun and nunchucks in your collection.
I was not aware of that implication from Hasselwander, thanks for clearing it up.
Mark
Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ground Zero
Ahh, but those things are ACTUALLY prohibited in the regulations.
It would be interesting to see how Hasselwander would be applied if you possessed a full auto sear kit but did not possess the firearm itself. Its always made me wonder how the drafters of the regulations prescribing certain things as prohibited considered banning bump stocks and the like, but neglected to include full auto trigger groups by name.
- Location
- Comox Valley
I don't agree as having a mold and resin would be no different than owing a milling machine and a block of aluminum and a diagram or a 3D printer and a software program that could make a mold. Additionally, I don't see how the Hasselwander decision would apply as owning a mold (designed for semi-auto) is applicable to full auto conversion. I think if you created a lower and didn't inform the authorities that in when you've crossed the rubicon.
Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ground Zero
I don't agree either. The Hasselwander ruling on its own is far too broad in how it was crafted and applied. Stretching the application to 80% receivers in my opinion was already a stretch too far. Applying it to moulds and bulk compounds is ludicrous.
But its the same logic at the end of the day. "Readily convertible, with relative ease, in a reasonable amount of time, with available tools and parts."
But be honest: a mold and resin is very far away from a CNC milling machine and a block of aluminum, 3D printer that needs CAD software. Any 4 year old who has ever played with play-doh knows how a mold works.
Programming a CNC file may seem like child's play to YOU, but to the common person its basically witchcraft.
- Location
- Comox Valley
^^^ true!!
- Location
- Georgetown Ontario
Hmmmm! Funny cause when I asked they stated they could ship almost anywhere worldwide including Canada!
- Location
- Comox Valley
It's not a firearm it's a mold and resin, I don't think there is anything illegal about it!!
There is also nothing illegal about 80% lowers but that didn’t stop the RCMP from stating otherwise and threatening business’ if they continue to bring them in. This is what I find most troubling. The law doesn’t change, only some bureaucrats opinion and we all suffer. Innocent until proven guilty but the lab pulls all kinds of illegal stunts and it’s cost prohibitive to try and fight it in court.
copy paste from their email to me 3 days ago :
Also, the only country option for shipping during their checkout process is United States. So yeah.
Youza.
- Location
- Georgetown Ontario
Must be new regs. The guy even asked if I wanted to order one LOL. maybe I should have ordered one to see what happened. Although I would view it as a waste of money as molds are soo easy to make yourself! The resin might be handy and shipable though, did you ask about that or just the mold kit itself?
The question then needs to be asked...... Why are the firearms businesses of canada alongside the gun orgs of canada, not hiring big gun lawyers and going after the rcmp in court over these issues?
Our elected politicians make the laws in this country , our NON elected law enforcement agencies do not and this harrassment of the law abiding by the rcmp needs to stop. So if all these gun orgs and businesses keep rolling over to the "wishes" of the rcmp , we will all keep dying the death of a thousand cuts.
When is the persecution and harrassment of our culture and heritage of lawful firearms use going to end?
It is a good question to ask. I’m not sure why they aren’t up in arms about some of the stuff that does come down as it does affect their bottom line. There seems to be a completely different attititude up here than in the US. 2nd Amendment aside, if the ATF tried to pull some of this crap than the NRA and the retailers would likely fight back and say #### you, take me to court.
I assume that no one is fighting over 80% ARs because only a couple of business’ brought them in so the others don’t want to poke the bear.
I mean the whole thing is so ludicrous. If an 80% lower is prohib because it could made into a full auto lower (never mind that to do so is already illegal), than doesn’t that mean that 100% lowers are also prohibited since there is even less work involved? If it was never made as an FA and has never had FA parts in it than its legal.
