sources for used flintlock fowlers? since quality new ones are way too expensive.
- Thread starter lobsterman89
- Start date
You're ON one right now. The Equipment Exchange here handles anything and everything used and new.
If you can't find what you are looking for, likely it is because it doesn't exist.
Example, you want a used re-enactment MUSKET with a barrel under 30 inches. No such animal. The "used" part is easy: EE. The "Musket" part means that you are looking for a SMOOTHBORE with a full stock. Re-enactors want weapons the most authentic they possibly can be, so theirs are reproductions of "issue" items. The SHORTEST barrel in the Bess family was 39 inches, the longest common length 46 inches. And they were a 12-gauge, all of them, fired a .690" ball with a little more range and accuracy than a bowling-ball.
What you are looking for is more like an Artillery Carbine than a proper Musket. In this department, originals are VERY rare and not too many re-enactors have their own cannon and so have little use for such an item. You MIGHT be able to find a European-made shorty which will fit your bill, but it will be an original simply because there are no repros being made.
Get ahold of Howard L. Blackmore's book and see what is in there. Then start checking out the various OTHER European Armies and see what they had.
You might find something but, on the other hand, you likely will have to make your own.
Good luck!
.
If you can't find what you are looking for, likely it is because it doesn't exist.
Example, you want a used re-enactment MUSKET with a barrel under 30 inches. No such animal. The "used" part is easy: EE. The "Musket" part means that you are looking for a SMOOTHBORE with a full stock. Re-enactors want weapons the most authentic they possibly can be, so theirs are reproductions of "issue" items. The SHORTEST barrel in the Bess family was 39 inches, the longest common length 46 inches. And they were a 12-gauge, all of them, fired a .690" ball with a little more range and accuracy than a bowling-ball.
What you are looking for is more like an Artillery Carbine than a proper Musket. In this department, originals are VERY rare and not too many re-enactors have their own cannon and so have little use for such an item. You MIGHT be able to find a European-made shorty which will fit your bill, but it will be an original simply because there are no repros being made.
Get ahold of Howard L. Blackmore's book and see what is in there. Then start checking out the various OTHER European Armies and see what they had.
You might find something but, on the other hand, you likely will have to make your own.
Good luck!
.
ok, how about a shorter barrelled fowler or something under 30". the reason I want it is for brush hunting, the brush here is so thick that even the 39" barrel would be a bit much, I need someone manueverable yet functional. a patched round ball in a musket can be accurate, I've seen it done, hitting a apple at 50 yards(all I need) and I'll be mostly using shot in it anyways. I might have had the terminology wrong with "musket" and meant any smoothbore flintlock with a 30" or less barrel. maybe a fowler would make more sense.
I think that being able to hit an apple with a smoothbore at 50 yards takes a lot of practice. Keep in mind that around here the term flint smoothbore more or less means no rear sight.
I also think you may be a bit unrealistic in terms of finding a quality flintlock for under $600. To my mind, one of your criteria means finding a gun with a Siler or L&R lock on it to ensure dependable firing. If your only purpose is for hunting, why not look for a percussion gun; even inexpensive ones usually are fairly dependable as compared to inexpensive flintlocks
cheers mooncoon
I also think you may be a bit unrealistic in terms of finding a quality flintlock for under $600. To my mind, one of your criteria means finding a gun with a Siler or L&R lock on it to ensure dependable firing. If your only purpose is for hunting, why not look for a percussion gun; even inexpensive ones usually are fairly dependable as compared to inexpensive flintlocks
cheers mooncoon
i can't find anything about shipping, do you know for sure that they ship to canada? since they do operate out of michigan.
I think nessy beat you to it. also, I said flintlock because I want a flintlock. I didn't just say "blackpowder muzzleloader"
stevejones
Regular
- Location
- Courtenay, BC
The parts alone will cost about $750 on average to build an average gun. The canoe gun mentioned earlier will be a great choice if you have average skills and patience. Just understand that a kit is a lot of work and the key is planning , preperation, and a good friend(s) who can offer advice (you know who you are!) when you need it.
Cheers. Steve.
Cheers. Steve.
I like sitting fox's guns, but are there any other sources? maybe for less fully assembled? it surprises me that just putting it together is worth $400-$500 and another $100 to stain, seal and polish the metal parts. I know putting the barrel tenons and soldering some other parts take a little time, but is it really worth that much? we're talking about them possibly working at most 10 hours and being paid $40-$50 an hour to assemble and finish the gun(and I don't think it takes that long in the hands of professionals such as them.). when it gets down to it, the guns cost as much or more than a pedersoli while not having the brand name. I don't think I have the mechanical skills to build it from the bare bones kit they sell(they basically get the parts and resell them to you, they do nothing) are there any other sources for a muzzleloader with my specs? at least lower then $800, because this is absurd.
The blackpowder market is like the kilt market. The demand compared to other guns or clothing isnt as high and the market is smaller. Also alot of it is custom made or made in small quantities. Hence why the prices on boh these things are higher.
I have some really nice muzzleloaders and some cheap ones. Both work fine, my built from old parts spanish jukar flinter is the most reliable gun im my collection. Same as i have some really nice kilts and some cheap ones. Both look generally good and they get the job done.
If you want a nice quality smoothbore carbine for the lowest price you have two options. Buy indian or collect up parts and get an old fowler barrel then build a gun around it.
Also it takes ALOT of time to ile and polish all he metal, tune the lock, finiahs and stain the wood, temper the springs and parts etc..
If you have ever blued a gun or refinished a really beat up rusted pos then its a little easier to understand how much the work costs in man hours.
There is a pedersoli brown bess carbine here for sale this is a good deal and they dont come up too often.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/pp-classifieds/showproduct.php/product/8000/cat/9
McLean
I have some really nice muzzleloaders and some cheap ones. Both work fine, my built from old parts spanish jukar flinter is the most reliable gun im my collection. Same as i have some really nice kilts and some cheap ones. Both look generally good and they get the job done.
If you want a nice quality smoothbore carbine for the lowest price you have two options. Buy indian or collect up parts and get an old fowler barrel then build a gun around it.
Also it takes ALOT of time to ile and polish all he metal, tune the lock, finiahs and stain the wood, temper the springs and parts etc..
If you have ever blued a gun or refinished a really beat up rusted pos then its a little easier to understand how much the work costs in man hours.
There is a pedersoli brown bess carbine here for sale this is a good deal and they dont come up too often.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/pp-classifieds/showproduct.php/product/8000/cat/9
McLean
you know this gun is in the US and in functioning condition right? it would like cost me as much as the gun's price to just import it myself into canada. not a viable option.
Virtually all of the import guns have locks made of case hardened mild steel. There are a number of import firms who while they have US names are actually selling guns made overseas. The problem with case hardened parts is that the casing wears through or gets rusted a bit and the rust wears off leaving soft metal underneath.
Also there are a lot of small subtle things about locks in general and flintlocks in particular that make the difference between a good lock and a poor one. That is why I would recommend a lock made by a reputable US lock firm. While you regard Pedersoli as being a brand name as opposed to a custom or semi custom gun with no name, if that no name gun uses a lock made by one of the reputable US firms, to my mind it is far superior to an Italian (or Indian) import gun with case hardened parts.
I have reached the point where I can make a flint lock from pieces of metal but I still do not hold a candle to the quality of locks from reputable US lock makers. What I am trying to say is that there is a lot more to a good flint lock that simply filing or stamping out a bunch of parts and screwing them together. Perhaps you only want to fire a few shots while hunting but in order to become proficient with the gun, you are going to have to practice a considerable amount and you want a lock that will stand up to that. If you decide to use a gun like a brown bess or a northwest trade gun with no rear sight, you are probably going to require a lot of practice
cheers mooncoon
Also there are a lot of small subtle things about locks in general and flintlocks in particular that make the difference between a good lock and a poor one. That is why I would recommend a lock made by a reputable US lock firm. While you regard Pedersoli as being a brand name as opposed to a custom or semi custom gun with no name, if that no name gun uses a lock made by one of the reputable US firms, to my mind it is far superior to an Italian (or Indian) import gun with case hardened parts.
I have reached the point where I can make a flint lock from pieces of metal but I still do not hold a candle to the quality of locks from reputable US lock makers. What I am trying to say is that there is a lot more to a good flint lock that simply filing or stamping out a bunch of parts and screwing them together. Perhaps you only want to fire a few shots while hunting but in order to become proficient with the gun, you are going to have to practice a considerable amount and you want a lock that will stand up to that. If you decide to use a gun like a brown bess or a northwest trade gun with no rear sight, you are probably going to require a lot of practice
cheers mooncoon
If I were you I would try to find a TC New Englander in 12ga, though it is percussion it has a 28 barrel and you can also get them with a spare rifle barrel as well.There is a guy on the traditional muzzleloading forum that even converted his to flintlock.Though thses guns aren t in production anymore they are around in fact I recently purchased a new in the box 50cal New englander unassembled kit the other week here on the EE.I basically purchased it to go with my
TC New Englander 12 smooth bore hell I might even convert mine to flint someday.
TC New Englander 12 smooth bore hell I might even convert mine to flint someday.
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Check out Jackie Brown muzzleloaders, I betcha he would build you one for about $750. I have one of his Carolina fowlers(L/hand of course 
) paid $750 for it new , Fit and finish isn't as good as say Jim Chambers BUT it fits me like a glove, has a Large Siler lock , shoots like a hot damn ! plus I have a kids rifle that he built for me, so cheap I can't tell you the price , and it's my favourite rife.
I would give Jackie a call , tell him exactly what you want, and how much ?
Cheers nessy.
) paid $750 for it new , Fit and finish isn't as good as say Jim Chambers BUT it fits me like a glove, has a Large Siler lock , shoots like a hot damn ! plus I have a kids rifle that he built for me, so cheap I can't tell you the price , and it's my favourite rife. I would give Jackie a call , tell him exactly what you want, and how much ?
Cheers nessy.
stevejones
Regular
- Location
- Courtenay, BC
Like I said...building a gun is a lot of work. Just in letting the barrel is very time consuming. Anyway, I have a North Carolina Fowler that Jackie Brown built and I am very impressed with it. Quality parts and the workmanship is very acceptable.
Cheers. Steve.
Cheers. Steve.
thanks, I'll look into thatCheck out Jackie Brown muzzleloaders, I betcha he would build you one for about $750. I have one of his Carolina fowlers(L/hand of course
I would give Jackie a call , tell him exactly what you want, and how much ?
Cheers nessy.
EDIT*
actually, how can I contact him? I searched online and I can't find any contact info or a website.
not really since I want a flintlock, period. I like the reliability and versatility of it and a percussion cap gun needs percussion caps, where a flintlock just need a flint and powder, a lot simpler.
Caps are often easier to buy than flints, which will likely have to be ordered.
Reliability and versatility? There's a reason that percussion guns rapidly replaced flint guns.
I have a James Wilkinson 16 bore flintlock shotgun. Obtained a photocopy of the page of the Wilkinson ledger recording this gun. It was entered Nov. 7, 1822. There are 15 guns on the page, covering almost 2 months of production. Two thirds of them are percussion. That was 1822, and already the market for top grade English sporting guns had shifted to favour percussion.
