Springfield Armory's ammo recommendations- this make sense?

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So, eying the Norinco steel cased ammo, thought I'd ask Springfield if they had any concerns.

Response was that they DID.... claimed that the steel case could hurt the rifling.

Yes, rifling.

I indicated that this steel case I was talking about contained the propellant, wasn't on the bullet, but the answer was still the same. Could damage the rifling- and it sounded like the premise was even the part of the case in the CHAMBER would have an effect.

I was a bit skeptical, and was offered what seems to be an unofficial statement. It's reproduced below- comments would be appreciated.

It doesnt add up to me...

.308 WIN & 7.62x51mm NATO ammunition are the same. Therefore, both types of ammunition can be used in our M1As.

We follow SAAMI specifications not military specifications when chambering and headspacing our M1A rifles. Although the M1A is based on a military rifle, it is a commercial firearm and therefore MUST be to SAAMI specs not military specs. Only military firearms will require military specifications.

Because .308 WIN and 7.62x51mm ammunition are the same (the only difference being the headspacing of the rifle), the use of 7.62x51mm ammunition in a rifle chambered in .308 WIN is perfectly acceptable. However, the use of .308 WIN ammunition is not recommended when using a rifle chambered for 7.62x51mm because the military specifications required the barrel chamber to have a larger diameter as well as to be longer than .308 WIN SAAMI specifications call for. The reason the military does this is to compensate for debris that can enter the chamber during combat use, differences in pressure, powder burn, etc. This is also why 7.62x51mm ammunition uses a heavier brass and harder primer than commercial .308 WIN ammunition. At one time we used USGI chromed-lined barrels, but the specifications of our receivers were changed from USGI specs to make the headspace decrease so it will be acceptable for .308 WIN ammunition and within SAAMI specs.
.308 WIN SAAMI headspacing: GO: 1.630 to 1.634
.308 WIN Springfield Armory headspacing: GO 1.631 to 1.633 (obviously still within SAAMI spec)
7.62x51 NATO headspacing: GO: 1.636 to 1.645

Recommended .308 WIN ammunition:
*Newly manufactured US production to SAAMI specifications
For optimum accuracy:
Black Hills (168-175 gr.):
Federal Gold Match (168 gr.):
For hunting:
Winchester Failsafe
Federal Nozler Ballistic Tip
(These are not the only types of .308 WIN we recommend…just a few)

Best is 168 gr. is match and designed to give the best performance. 175 gr. is going to give you better performance at great distances.
147 gr. to 150 gr. is good for prinking around at the range (less expensive as well).
Molly coated ammunition is okay, but with this type if you start using it you should stay with it. The gas system requires cleaning more often though as well.

Ammunition not recommended for the M1A:
*Reloaded, remanufactured, or foreign produced (foreign produced ammunition is not required to be within SAAMI specifications)
Soft point ammunition may or may not feed. Also, lead shears off the tip and can build up in the action and cause problems
Stay away from steel ammo, corrosive ammo or any ammo that would stick to a magnet (it will wear down the lands and grooves quickly, something not covered under warranty).
Anything 180 gr. and above (it is too hard on the rifle).
Anything around 100 gr. and less will most likely not allow the rifle to function properly (short stroke).

7.62x51mm NATO Ammunition:
If you use 7.62x51NATO surplus ammunition please be careful. Some of it is junk and cheap for a reason. It depends on where it is from and how it was stored. Never buy loose rounds as well as unsealed or opened containers. You can get an indication by looking at it.





You can’t quote the following as 100% accurate, these are ONLY recommendations I have got from other shooters and sources (these are not Springfield Armory’s recommendations):

US (Lake City): Known to be the best but it is pricey for surplus, NATO cross stamp, LC
Argentina: Good when found; stamped FLB, FM or SF
Australia (ADI): Good; stamped AFF or MF
Austria (Hirtenberger): Haven’t heard good or bad; stamped HP, H
Belgium: Good; stamped FN
Great Britain (Radway Green): Very good; RG
Czechoslovakia: Haven’t heard good or bad; stamped ZV
Germany (West Germany): Real good; stamped MEN, MS, DAG
Portugal: Good, stamped BF
Israel: Hear it’s real good; stamped IMI, S, SA, SB, TA, TZ, or TZZ.
Malaysia: Good; hard to find; stamped MAL
Spain: (Santa Barbra): Real Good, stamped SB
South Africa: Good, stamped R1M1
India: NOT RECOMMENDED; stamped OFV
Greek: Haven’t heard good or bad; stamped HXP
Indonesia: Haven’t heard good or bad; stamped PINDAD
Venezuela (Cavim): NOT RECOMMENDED; stamped Cavim
Singapore: Haven’t heard good or bad; stamped GG
Sweden: Haven’t heard good or bad; stamped 070
Pakistan: NOT RECOMMENDED; stamped POF
Yugoslavia: Haven’t heard good or bad; stamped NNY
 
I think they are talking about steel projectiles not steel casings. That's my read of the quoted section. FWIW, I'd use Norc ammo in a cheap rifle but not in a quality firearm.
 
update- sent the description (thanks Canada Ammo) of the ammo to SA, and they say in part,

"Yes, with the copper mixed in, it will be fine to shoot."

off to spend money!
 
SA Inc's lawyers do a whole lot of CYAing. For example, use of reloads voids the warrantee. There's absolutely no way a steel case will do anything to the rifling. The case comes nowhere near the rifling. A steel jacketed bullet can cause premature wear. Not enough to worry about though.
Military brass is a bit thicker, but it's has nothing to do with the chambers. Has to do with firing it out of MG's. Primers are no different. Crimping the primers is about MG's too.
 
sunray said:
SA Inc's lawyers do a whole lot of CYAing. For example, use of reloads voids the warrantee. There's absolutely no way a steel case will do anything to the rifling. The case comes nowhere near the rifling. A steel jacketed bullet can cause premature wear. Not enough to worry about though.
Military brass is a bit thicker, but it's has nothing to do with the chambers. Has to do with firing it out of MG's. Primers are no different. Crimping the primers is about MG's too.
Click to expand...

undoubtedly.

so it's good to actually get an OK from SA.
 
The last norinco ammo was steel cased and a magnetic ( steel) bullet with a dusting or washing of copper over it all. No way I'm putting steel bullets down my M1A barrel for fear of wearing the rifling .
 
Why would you shell out big $$$ for the gun and then run garbage ammo through it?

Not trying to be a dink or anything - I reload and haven't fired a factory round in years. Can you reload steel cartridges...? And for that matter is steel cased ammo 'garbage'? I have heard others say it was so I suppose I should know what I am talking about before I beak off!
 
saskcop said:
I think that when Americans hear that anything is made in China, they close their minds and freak.
Click to expand...

It's purely a guess, but I would assume SAi only warrants American ammo because they know it's built against some known standards. Ammo made in a foreign country is completely out of their hands, so they stay on the safe side. Too often, countries like China manufacture without giving a damn about quality control. Once it's out of the country, they are shielded against any comeback and they know it...
 
One Lung Wonder said:
Why would you shell out big $$$ for the gun and then run garbage ammo through it?

Not trying to be a dink or anything - I reload and haven't fired a factory round in years. Can you reload steel cartridges...? And for that matter is steel cased ammo 'garbage'? I have heard others say it was so I suppose I should know what I am talking about before I beak off!
Click to expand...

Fair questions.

Don't reload and have enough going on doubt I will have time.

Looking for reasonably priced 308/7.62 and this is all I've found.
 
The Norinco stuff is steel cased (as in the cartridge casing), but the bullet itself is also steel jacketed (over a lead core). It only has a "copper wash" (a thin coating of copper). The coating is much thinner than the lands and grooves of the rifling. A magnet will stick to the bullet part of a Norinco steel cased round, proving that it has a steel jacket. The problem with the copper coating is that it is too thin to protect the bore of the rifle from the hardness of the steel being shot through it, as the lands of the rifling wear right through the copper coating, bringing the steel of the bullet jacket in contact with the lands of the rifling. It was documented by this researcher who put bullets through a scanning electron microscope. h ttp://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-magazine-article.php?Should-I-Buy-BiMetal-Ammo-8

So how bad is this?

Well, there was another study done in the USA where they fired something like 10,000 rounds each of different types of 5.56mm through several different AR15 rifles.
h ttp://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

The bi-metal copper/steel jacket ammo DID wear out the barrels significantly faster.
In the test, the AR's firing steel cased ammo essentially turned into smooth bores by 6000 rounds, with the chrome lining nearly completely eroded away (the only chrome left was a little in the grooves, the lands were almost completely gone). In contrast, the barrel of the AR firing Federal copper jacketed ammo still had plenty of life left. That is almost DOUBLE the wear rate with the bi-metal bullets (this is a conservative estimate, because the barrel shot with the copper jacketed bullets was still good at 10,000 rounds)


HOWEVER, the authors of the test felt that the savings from not buying full priced factory copper jacketed ammo was more than worth it as it was enough to pay for a new barrel and worn out extractors, etc.
 
I will not risking my SAI by using Norinco copper wash.
Reloading is a good option for cost saving, guarantee quality and precision.
 
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