Stabilizing all copper .223 bullets

sask3500

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Just getting into reloading for a 1 in 9 .223, I’m wondering how the long for weight all copper tsx bullets stabilize? Do you have to shoot a lighter bullet than a jacketed? I’m looking at maybe sticking with 55 grain instead of the 62 grain. There’s a big difference in length.

I guess I’m asking if it’s bullet weight or bullet length that determines what twist rate it takes to stabilize a given bore diameter.
 
The short answer is that Barnes (as well as other manufacturers of monolithic bullets that are long for their weight) kept the common twist rates for caliber in mind when designing their bullets. They wouldn't have lasted long if reloaders had found they were unstable and therefore inaccurate.

Disclosure: I have never tried Barnes .223 TSX/TTSX bullets in either my now gathering dust Evil Black Rifle or my 22-250. Those rifles either shoot targets or gophers, and occasionally coyotes, and the Barnes bullets are unnecessarily expensive when considering the other options available out there to do the same thing. I have no idea what twist rate your rifle has, but I doubt very much that you will find the 62 gr. bullet too long to stabilize. You can call Barnes and talk to them, you know. Tell them the twist rate of the rifle(s) you have in mind and ask them about the 62 grain bullet. Or alternately get the length of the 62 gr. bullet from somebody and feed it into one of the online twist calculators and that should give you a pretty good answer.

For hunting, 30 caliber and 35 caliber, hunting deer, elk, moose, sheep, over the years I've ended up moving to nothing but Barnes bullets. Lots of hunters using Barnes move down one bullet weight when using Barnes. I stuck with the 165/168 gr in 30 calibers, 180 grains in the wife's .358 Winchester, 200 grain in .35 Whelan, and 225 gr in 35 Newton/358 Norma Magnum. I haven't shot hundreds of game animals with them of course, but over the last approximate 40 years starting with the original x-bullet, they have been an incredibly reliable performer. The copper fouling problems of the first x-bullets nearly turned me off, but as far as I can tell now, Barnes has eliminated that problem.
 
9 twist, you'll want to stick to the 55gr TTSX and possibly the 50gr TTSX if you shoot at lower elevations

It's the length, not weight of the bullet that plays into stability. They typically go hand in hand, except for monometals
 
While browsing and doing the coffee thing...

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There's other variables - like muzzle velocity for example... but according to Barnes and online twist calculators using the improved Miller twist rate calculator rather than the old Bowman twist formula, and the REALLY old original Greenhill formula developed for cannons, your 1/9 twist should be okay.

It will cost you the purchase price of a box of bullets and some time shooting groups at 300 yards or so to discover if they're accurate and/or unstable.
 
Thanks for the replies. I was mostly wondering what contributed to bullet stability. It leads to another question though.

How much does a long for weight bullet deviate point of aim wise from a short for weight bullet? It’s kind of an odd question but if there’s a well known correlation between bullet construction and point of impact shifts I’d like to know. Like does a fairly closely matching profile increase your chances of minimal point of impact shifts between 2 bullets?

I’m hoping to end up with one load with great terminal performance (for when it counts) and one with a cheap fmj for plinking that’s a close enough match (point of impact wise) at short to mid range for when it doesn’t matter.

I’m mostly trying to over think things, it’s something I like to do before I spend money. But if I just have to experiment, that’s what’ll have to be done.

Short to mid range to me is out to 250ish yards.
 
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Different bullets will hit a different place. Different weight will be quite different.

in practice, this is not a big issue.

I zero with my hunting bullet and mark the elevation and wind knob with a little dab of paint.

Then I re-zero with my practice ammo. Typically one to 2 minutes different. not a big deal. For hunting I just move back to the marked places and I am good to go,
 
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Short to mid range to me is out to 250ish yards.

If mid range for you is 250 yards, I would suggest you probably need a faster twist barrel and a heavier bullet on whatever .223 caliber rifle you have but didn't specify. The National Match/Camp Perry competitions are where shooting at long range lives as far as the numbers of shooters competing is concerned. I would make a small wager that the vast majority of the competitors there are using either commercial or reloaded ammunition with 77 grain bullets. And another small wager that few if any of the competitors there are using ammunition loaded with 62 grain bullets.

NATO nations use 63 grain bullets in their service weapons, and depending on which nation, shoot their qualification matches with those rounds out to about 400 meters (US Marines to 600 meters?), but the ammunition is not that accurate to begin with, nor are the rifles. BUT those rifles do have a faster twist than 1/9" in most if not all cases.

The short story is that the 62/63 grain bullet selection is not optimal for precision accuracy over longer distances. The .223 accuracy at longer ranges crowd are choosing bullets like the Sierra 77 gr Match Kings and similar weight bullets from Hornady, Nosler, etc. Big difference in weight. And barrel twist to stabilize it.

I just helped set up a new barrel manufacturer in Montana. The most popular caliber order we got from manufacturers was .223/5.56, in either 17" or 19" (extra inch to mount for profiling and chambering), and in 1/9" twist.

These were for AR15 manufacturers. We confirmed the twist every single time because they will not stabilize the 70 - 77 grain bullets so popular with AR-15 owners that shoot at ranges beyond what you call mid range (or try to replicate the military OTM round manufactured by Black Hills). They said they knew that and they didn't care because the people buying their rifles didn't care. They were still selling those barrel blanks by the thousands when I left there in October. Why potential buyers of those AR15s (or commercial .223 caliber rifles) would not opt for a barrel with a twist long enough to also stabilize longer, heavier bullets if it were offered is a mystery to me.

On the other hand, when the same manufacturers put in an order for barrel blanks for their rifles in .300 Blackout, they ALWAYS specified a fast twist. Because apparently THOSE customers want a rifle with a barrel that will stabilize a long, long heavy bullet for caliber at lower velocity, maybe because they're all going to put a can on the barrel (unlikely) and/or try to keep their rounds subsonic. So that's what they got.

Related somewhat to what you're apparently doing, I am rebarreling my Ruger 22-250 with a new barrel at 1/7" twist, as well as taking the spacer out of the back of the magazine box so rounds of 75 grains and higher can be loaded to much longer OAL and still fit and feed from the magazine. That's specifically because I want to use those longer, heavier bullets. When I bought the rifle back in the late 70's, 55 grain bullets for reloading was pretty much as heavy as it got, and the barrel twist was just fine for bullets of 45 - 55 grains. Lots of things have changed since then...

If you can get a load with those 62 grain bullets that works well for you at 300+ yards, and you don't shoot where there's much wind to deal with, then you have a winner.
 
Good reply, I like novels :) I should have been more clear, this gun is my by the door farm animal defence gun. If there’s a coyote in the coop or barnyard it’s about 250 yards to cover for a coyote so really that’s as far as it’ll have to shoot. It gets used on gophers too but the scope on it limits range on them too. I’m just getting into reloading (at the order components stage) and I’m looking at a good quality bullet to help put a predator down with a marginal or moving hit.
 
Good reply, I like novels :) I should have been more clear, this gun is my by the door farm animal defence gun. If there’s a coyote in the coop or barnyard it’s about 250 yards to cover for a coyote so really that’s as far as it’ll have to shoot. It gets used on gophers too but the scope on it limits range on them too. I’m just getting into reloading (at the order components stage) and I’m looking at a good quality bullet to help put a predator down with a marginal or moving hit.

For those who don't like novels: a Sierra 52 grain bullet is considered by a few benchrest masters of times past to be the definitive generic test of accuracy in .223 rifles. And they will definitely kill coyotes at 250 yards. If worried about twist, you don't need a Barnes 63 grainer.
 
If you want to shoot yotes at 250 yards, you need an accurate bullet and one that does not drift too much in the wind.

I would try a 75 or 77 gr match HP bullet. It will be a good compromise. So long as the velocity is good, they should be very accurate. I assume you don't have a 16" barrel.

I found the 80 gr Sierra match shot well out of a 1:9 Savage, 24" barrel.
 
Just getting into reloading for a 1 in 9 .223, I’m wondering how the long for weight all copper tsx bullets stabilize? Do you have to shoot a lighter bullet than a jacketed? I’m looking at maybe sticking with 55 grain instead of the 62 grain. There’s a big difference in length.

I guess I’m asking if it’s bullet weight or bullet length that determines what twist rate it takes to stabilize a given bore diameter.

What material the bullet is made from is irrelevant.

What the bullet weighs is irrelevant.

The length of the bullet (regardless of material) is what decides on the twist rate, but in combination with muzzle velocity.

For example, a bullet of a particular weight/length may stabilize just fine at 3000 FPS with a 1:10 twist, but could stabilize just fine out of a 1:9 twist at only 2900 FPS.
 
I have shot up to 70gr tsx in a 9 twist savage barrel 223 rem. The 70 was clearly showing stability issues, but still managed to punch 1.2" group at a max charge at 100m. The key is to shoot the TSX hot to get the performance you are looking for. The 52-55gr TSX is should work just fine in the 9 twist. The 62 will be on the edge and is recommended for 8 twist.

When shooting monos, remember they are longer than normal lead bullets because they are lighter per volume. As you go with longer bullets, the faster twist you will need. As you reach the fine line of stability, what you see at 100m may vary wildly at distance. Use the manufacturers recommendations.

Your results may vary...
Elky...
 
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