Stag 10 vs BCL 102... the unspoken question
- Thread starter Paul_1982
- Start date
While it's only my opinion, I believe it's valid.
BCL = NEA
NEA = Unreliable, out of spec, kiss my ass.
Unreliable, out of spec, kiss me ass = Junk
Junk = not worth my time, money, or consideration.
Stag ≠ BCL
Therefore:
Stag > BCL
There you have it. Case closed.
Judging by how the EE is full of people trying to offload the BCL should give you a good idea on whats better...
And BCL still hasn't lowered their prices lol they can't compete.
That's good to hear! I think a modest price reduction and or at the very least a commitment to the gun(product) and not just the first owner as far as warranty is concerned would be appropriate. It's nice to know that if you decide to sell a product that the lifetime warranty is transferable to the next buyer.
Going to add my two cents on this one.
The Stag 10:
Specs: This is the real deal. It's 7075 forged, anodized etc as others have mentioned. The specs are there. I also own a few Stag Ar15 rifles and can attest they are solid and generally an under rated AR company.
Design: This is really a basic AR10 design. Equivalent to the gen1 BCL 102 as it doesn't have the fancy boutique features like ambi controls, or the fancy contours that billet rifles often incorporate. It does however have a forward assist. Which isn't needed but is an extra feature/cost.
But... all is not perfect in Stag 10 land. The 6.5 CM offerings for example were much better than the current mediocre 308 offerings just released. The 6.5 ones had a target version with PRS stock, SS barrels and 2 stage triggers. Along with variations of those options. The 308 offers a milspec trigger, Chrome lined 18.5" barrels with 1:10 twist and a magpul CTR or a regular M4 stock.
I ended up buying a receiver set and have ordered the barrel, handguard etc. My Stag 10 won't be a 308 lead hose. It should be fun to put together. The latest price drop on the receiver sets was a nice bonus.
The BCL 102:
Specs: Hahhahahah,Oh sorry was that out loud? Who knows. Assume 6061 as they continue not to tell us no matter how much we ask. Not anodized. I have no idea what any of the specs are on this. I call it hobby gun spec. The MH also had this going for it when they used DPMS parts. So until now, they were able to get away with it and there was no competition. That being said, it's unlikely to be a factor for most of us. I do have some concerns regarding the hardness of the aluminum and I don't know how much the cerekote will help in that regard. My concerns are on the wear points and trigger pin holes/take down pin holes etc elongating with use if the aluminum is too soft. We will only know this after years of use. It's too early to tell if this will ever be an issue with these firearms. But it is a legitimate concern. One that you don't have to worry about with the Stag.
Design: I happen to like the design of the BCL 102 and while I liked the gen1, I actually really like the gen2 even more. Keep in mind, I'm use to AR308 rifles being proprietary. I have both AR10 and AR308 systems with some to no compatibility. As I happen to not mind the BCL 102 handguard since I wasn't aiming for super light etc, I have no issues with the gen 2 design. I find it kind of clever how the contours were designed. Plus it offers the ambi bolt release which is usually only seen in more expensive guns like LMT etc. I like the looks of it. But that's subjective. I like the real features. I also have a latest version though which seems to have the bugs worked out. My dust cover for example is great. The fit is excellent on my BCL 102 as was a buddies who received his at the same time. The cerekote finish was decent and it comes in more colours than black.
Overall I don't think the 102 is done yet. It could have and should have been but... Arms East has left a huge door open. The 102 comes with a barrel that looks to shoot decently once you realize which ammo you should be trying in it. The barrel is a compromise but it's a better one for most users with the cost etc of 308. Also they sent out a few with match barrels that looked to be the international ones that are about to come to market. Arms East/Stag has clearly opted to make their accuracy version the barrel burning 6.5 CM. Not all of us want that. Many of us still shoot targets for fun with 308. As the saying goes, only accurate rifles are interesting. With the Stag 10 in 308 also needing a decent trigger, that extra keeps the gap between the two in price. The prices will have to come down a bit with the BCL 102 to remain competitive. But they can still maintain the Canadian DPMS AR308 rifle spot as the lowest priced and still ok. Frankly DPMS has been very successful in that market. There is no reason why BCL can't be as well.
If buying right now, there is no doubt to go with the Stag 10. It's a better base and a better firearm. It's unfortunate their 308 offerings suck. Which is why I bought a stripped receiver set. I generally like to buy as close to what I want out of the box. Especially with AR308 rifles as they can be a pain to mix/match. With the Stag I would actually want a lot of Stag parts in my rifle. I bought a complete rifle with the BCL 102 and it did exceed my fairly low expectations. Unfortunately I can't go that way with the Stag. Which means even more money. The BCL I plan on keeping pretty much stock, other than maybe a new trigger. So the price is known. The Stag is likely going to cost me $700 more than the BCL 102. It will be a better rifle, but it won't be inexpensive.
Again if anywhere near the same price, get the Stag 10.
I appreciate that you want an accurate .308 but I'm not sure how much of a consideration it is for most people that the 6.5 Creed is a "barrel burner". Everyone just seems to repeat this ad nauseaum when the reality is you'll get about 3k rds of accurate barrel life out of it. Lets be honest, most people on this forum sure as #### don't go through 3k rds in a year. Brass and bullets are consumables so I don't really consider that an extra cost so all you really need are new dies. For a calibre that is in every way the superior to .308, having to re-barrel after having spent $3-6k on ammo (depending if you reload or not) seems kinda inconsequential.
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
I personally will be sticking with my BCL102 lower. I appreciate the ambi bolt release to much to give it up.
There are two things that took me by surprise with the BCL 102 that piss me off.
First it is not anodized. Had I known that before I got one of the first Gen 1 versions I would not have purchased it.
Getting it anodized shortly at a $150 hit including stripping the cerakote.
I just do not understand why BCL would not anodize the upper and lower before cerakoting. IMHO that is idiotic. The upper and lower when I first got mine were rock solid. Now there is quite a bit of wiggle between the two which I can only surmise is due to the pin holes becoming enlarged from recoil.
The second is the barrel. On my Gen 1 it has been a big dissapointment. After 5 rounds or so groups open up significantly. Getting a new barrel that will hopefully deal with this issue.
If i had known the above i would have passed.
I have two gen 1 NEA 15’s that I put together from parts and both have been rock solid with zero issues and thousand of trouble free rounds and would not hesitate to purchase another “NEA” 15, but I personally will not purchase another BCL product.
First it is not anodized. Had I known that before I got one of the first Gen 1 versions I would not have purchased it.
Getting it anodized shortly at a $150 hit including stripping the cerakote.
I just do not understand why BCL would not anodize the upper and lower before cerakoting. IMHO that is idiotic. The upper and lower when I first got mine were rock solid. Now there is quite a bit of wiggle between the two which I can only surmise is due to the pin holes becoming enlarged from recoil.
The second is the barrel. On my Gen 1 it has been a big dissapointment. After 5 rounds or so groups open up significantly. Getting a new barrel that will hopefully deal with this issue.
If i had known the above i would have passed.
I have two gen 1 NEA 15’s that I put together from parts and both have been rock solid with zero issues and thousand of trouble free rounds and would not hesitate to purchase another “NEA” 15, but I personally will not purchase another BCL product.
I was a really really weird about getting my hands dirty as a kid... maybe if I had a stick though?
Same thing here, I seemed to have been lucky with my BCL 102 but don't advise luck as a buying strategy!
r34skyline
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Way superior is an overstatement. And only true in one context.
3000 rounds vs 7-1000 round barrel life is substantial difference.
I don't disagree most people wouldn't be putting down that many rounds a year... or even 5 years.
And unless you reload there is substantial cost difference between 6.5 vs 308 for ammo and even if you reload 308 will be the less expensive round to load. While if you are specifically target shooting the 6.5 has an advantage. In every other regard the 308 is the better option.
Back on the op topic i trust you got your answer. Get the stag. Forget the bcl junk.
I would say 2K if competing or shooting longer/fast strings, with 2.5K being medium use and 3K being careful to keep it cool and not use really high velocity loads. With the 308 you are looking at about 3x the barrel life. Like all things certain variables will cause better or worse wear.
People repeat this because they have seen it before. This isn't the first time many of us have seen the newest best ballistics and velocity cartridge to reach popularity only to later go back to the old standards. I don't think that will be the case with the 6.5 CM, but I do think the average non competitive or frequent long range shooter will be less than enthralled when they have to start rebarrelling. I saw this with the 22-250. Great cartridge, very accurate but barrel life wasn't great. I saw a lot of buddies go back to 223 or give 204 a try. Those guys loved the 22-250. The cost and time of rebarrelling, not so much.
Anyways I don't think it's a 6.5 CM or 308 discussion. I like both for different reasons. What I don't like is finding the 308 only available in the Stag 10 as a plinker. It's why I've opted to build my own.
In retrospect what I probably should have done was snagged one of the 6.5 CM Stag 10 rifles all done up the way I want and then bought a 308 barrel as well. But I was expecting the cost of the 308 to be a lot less expensive along with offering the same setups as the 6.5 CM. Hindsight is 20/20.
Stag 10 in 308 fairly comparable Mil spec version is $2050. My BCL 102 was $1650. $400 price difference. Plus the Stag has a CL barrel while the BCL Barrel can have the potential of sub moa (I've seen examples of this). Granted the regular price of the BCL is $1800 but that's still a $250 difference. For $250 it's a no brainer to go with the Stag. For $400 it makes one think it through a bit more. But.. I would still go with the Stag without any real hesitation. The difference with the builder option isn't even a decision. Stag hands down.
To avoid the Taxes on the BCL if you're in the same province as SFRC then you just order from Canada Ammo. Canada Ammo got screwed around a lot on these but they are also a distributor. So the tax difference isn't really an issue.
-Didn't notice you were in BC. IF ordering from SFRC then you would only pay the 5% BC PST.
Again, I should have probably just grabbed a 6.5 CM in the configuration I wanted and bought the 308 barrel after. Will be interesting to see if they up the price of the 6.5 CM when they post them again.
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Not a Stag .308, but Like Epoxy, I have a Stag AR-15 (actually one of the first that made it to Canada). It's a mil-spec AR. Nothing to write home about, but nothing to b!tch about either. Good, solid guns overall.
These Stag 10s I'd expect to be about the same, just bigger.
For all those knocking the BCL-102, do you own one? Which 'gen'?
Are you comparing it to another AR-10 type rifle?
I've worked on NEA AR-15s and can say I haven't seen evidence of the irregularities in the one complete rifle and the one set of receivers that I have of the BCL-102.
I realize reputation can take some time to change for the better, but I think some of the knocks against the BCL are unsubstantiated carry over from NEA.
7075 v. 6061 aluminum used in the receivers:
This one has been discussed repeatedly elsewhere, and my understanding is it's pretty much white noise. 6061 works just fine and does the job and 7075 is not required and essentially overkill.
I don't think BCL has released what type of aluminum they've used in their billet, and quite frankly I don't think it matters much at all. Regardless what Aluminum is used, it's essential the surface treatment is installed and robust enough to resist wear.
Re. Ceracoat v. type III anodizing.
What's the difference? This is a genuine question.
I've had work guns (Colts and Diamacos) with anodizing that was beat to sh!t.
Take a look at the interior of any AR that has had some use and you quickly realize that Anodizing isn't the end-all-be-all finish.
Is the ceracoat going to fail or is it expected to out perform or perform as well as the Anodizing?
I did a trigger job and replaced the pins with some slightly oversized ones that I had to pound in.
I thought that action would damage the ceracoat on the inside of the pin holes, but aside from looking a little discoloured (darker),
it's intact and the pins are tight.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the ceracoat holds up through multiple thousands of rounds.
DiabeticKripple
CGN Regular
- Location
- Red Deer, Alberta
You should only be paying BC taxes for either. It’s based on where you live, not where the item is sold.
There’s a (very / overly / ridiculously) vocal 10% that will flog brand A over brand B.
They are the first ones sinking their money on something they will write an e’exciting new review’ on to call it the new last word in ‘whatever’. And often (not always, but shockingly often) you see these dudes flogging that piece of #### not even 6 months down the road as the other 90% get around to shooting them and exposing the naked realities.
The NEA debacle that played out in real time on this board is the gold standard in “don’t believe everything you read here”. Not long after that started circling the CGN drain with reports of a heavy and gritty trigger and the worlds worst QC there was a fire sale on NEA rifles and you couldn’t sell it if you offered to blow the buyer.
This has repeated itself in many forms:
Swiss arms legendary accuracy (1inchGroups was my absolute favourte here)
Colt 6920 build superiority
It would make a pretty good drinking game to go through in a circle and call out CGNs greatest hits on pre sales hype. But to be honest, the same can be said for virtually any other site on the Internet. Nature of the beast...
Fill in the blanks on yesteryear’s darling. They’re mechanical. They all suck and underperform or even break down in one way or another.
They are the first ones sinking their money on something they will write an e’exciting new review’ on to call it the new last word in ‘whatever’. And often (not always, but shockingly often) you see these dudes flogging that piece of #### not even 6 months down the road as the other 90% get around to shooting them and exposing the naked realities.
The NEA debacle that played out in real time on this board is the gold standard in “don’t believe everything you read here”. Not long after that started circling the CGN drain with reports of a heavy and gritty trigger and the worlds worst QC there was a fire sale on NEA rifles and you couldn’t sell it if you offered to blow the buyer.
This has repeated itself in many forms:
Swiss arms legendary accuracy (1inchGroups was my absolute favourte here)
Colt 6920 build superiority
It would make a pretty good drinking game to go through in a circle and call out CGNs greatest hits on pre sales hype. But to be honest, the same can be said for virtually any other site on the Internet. Nature of the beast...
Fill in the blanks on yesteryear’s darling. They’re mechanical. They all suck and underperform or even break down in one way or another.
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