Steel case ammo with Browning M1919A4

[NavyShooter]

I ran about 40 rounds of MFS through mine, and while it functioned OK, and I didn't see any visible signs on either the brass or the gun, it did run different. I didn't get a warm and fuzzy feeling from it, despite the warm barrel and a pile of link.

I have a goodly supply of various 7.62 ammo (about 200 Hirt, 400 Brit surplus, and about 400 other milsurp) that I have onhand, about half of it linked up.

When I run out of that, there will be other options...including reloading.

NS

 

[stencollector]

Thanks stencollector.
I red on 1919a4.com that if, for a s/a .308, I have to go beyond 4-5 clicks when the gun is cold, something was not right.
I will follow your method and do the 1 click at a time until it fires, see if it's sluggish, and increase from there.
So far, I found that shooting Federal XM80C 149 gr (the only ammo I have used ever yet), it ran like a sewing machine at 4 clicks out.
Is there a standard in terms of clicks? or does this truly vary on every ammo manufacturer? and is it also different depending on the gun?

Regards

Any decent quality of ammunition will be reasonably within specs. One of the variables you can have with the headspacing is the actual manufacturing of the barrel. I have reamed a few chambers for the 8mm barrels to use the swede ammo, so with each barrel the number of clicks may well be different. The swede ammo varied greatly on it's tolerances, so it liked things kind of sloppy. This included both the T slot on the bolt face, and the chamber itself. I suffered a few broken cases in my first 8mm barrel. I compared the tightness of the barrel I had made vs the sloppiness of a .308 Canadian barrel. In the end, I ran valve lapping compound on an empty case attached to a drill to open up the chamber a bit. Worked great, and I coudl go through multiple belts at high speed without an issue.

I have another barrel to ream out. I actually shot out my last one to the point the bullets would go through the target sideways at 100 meters. In all honesty though, I have not shot my 1919 in about 4 years or so. I have it's big brother now, which although it does not run as smoothly (yet), it does make a lot more noise.

 

[katazone]

I ran about 40 rounds of MFS through mine, and while it functioned OK, and I didn't see any visible signs on either the brass or the gun, it did run different. I didn't get a warm and fuzzy feeling from it, despite the warm barrel and a pile of link.

I have a goodly supply of various 7.62 ammo (about 200 Hirt, 400 Brit surplus, and about 400 other milsurp) that I have onhand, about half of it linked up.

When I run out of that, there will be other options...including reloading.

NS

Lol....I know what you mean by warm fuzzy feeling. But maybe that's because deep down, you know it's not that soft shinny brass!!!
Thx for the heads up
Can't wait for those loaders! seems to be taking for ever.

Cheers

 

[katazone]

Any decent quality of ammunition will be reasonably within specs. One of the variables you can have with the headspacing is the actual manufacturing of the barrel. I have reamed a few chambers for the 8mm barrels to use the swede ammo, so with each barrel the number of clicks may well be different. The swede ammo varied greatly on it's tolerances, so it liked things kind of sloppy. This included both the T slot on the bolt face, and the chamber itself. I suffered a few broken cases in my first 8mm barrel. I compared the tightness of the barrel I had made vs the sloppiness of a .308 Canadian barrel. In the end, I ran valve lapping compound on an empty case attached to a drill to open up the chamber a bit. Worked great, and I coudl go through multiple belts at high speed without an issue.

I have another barrel to ream out. I actually shot out my last one to the point the bullets would go through the target sideways at 100 meters. In all honesty though, I have not shot my 1919 in about 4 years or so. I have it's big brother now, which although it does not run as smoothly (yet), it does make a lot more noise.

Please don't tell me you have what I think you have!!!!!!
So jealous.
Can I PM you for a few questions?

 

[Bendeco]

Is a 1919 non restricted?

 

[tiriaq]

It is if it was made as a semi auto.

 

[stencollector]

Please don't tell me you have what I think you have!!!!!!
So jealous.
Can I PM you for a few questions?

Not sure what you think I have, but sure.

 

[katazone]

It is if it was made as a semi auto.

tiriaq
What happens to all those who acquired a 1919 (or even an M2HB) before the RCMP made up the all sides and trunnion newly made rule?
I know they consider them prohib ! So.....?
Or does rule only apply to new imports only?

 

[tiriaq]

This opinion is being applied only to what would be new imports. There has been no retroactive application.

 

[katazone]

This opinion is being applied only to what would be new imports. There has been no retroactive application.

Thank you for clearing that up!!!

 

[katazone]

So I went to the range with some bulk MFS SP 140gr. And she did NOT like it. Heck didn't even want to cycle, as if it didn't want to grab the cloth belt or the links at that!!!
Dropped some Federal XM80C back into it and smooth as hell.
Compared the length of the overall ammo, the MFS was definitely a little shorter and wasn't sure if the tiny led tips had anything to do with it (SP...I missed that when I bought them )

My question is: Could this be mitigated? say by the way I seat the ammo in the belt or links....slightly deeper since it's shorter? or it was just not meant to be

Any help is appreciated. Thx

 

[Jay]

The MFS ammo is steel cased is it not? As you know, my experience with steel cased ammo & the 1919 has NOT been a good one...

Cheers
Jay

My only experience running Norinco steel cased ammo through my 1919 was the rifle firing the round and then ripping the rim off the case with the case stuck in the chamber.

I have not fired ANY steel case after. Damaging the bolt face would be a MAJOR pain in the a$$!

Cheers
Jay

 

[katazone]

Hey Jay, I appreciate. I am however determined to understanding what makes it tick and figuring out!

The MFS ammo is steel cased is it not? As you know, my experience with steel cased ammo & the 1919 has NOT been a good one...

Cheers
Jay

 

[Kevin M.]

Due to the pull out link design as opposed to a push through link design, it can be a bit picky on ammo that is shorter than milspec 30-06 ball ammo.

I ran across that issue a few years ago and it would simply push the belt just far enough forward in the feed tray that the extractor wouldn't catch the rims for belt extraction.

Hopefully I am understanding you right, and you are not meaning that you are having a belt advancement issue...?

 

[Kevin M.]

Not sure what you think I have, but sure.

I feel like if I ever went into your gun room I would have a similar reaction....

 

[katazone]

Kevin, I think you described my suspicion. Are there any remedy for that? oh...I'm .308 but I assume same issue! Thx

Due to the pull out link design as opposed to a push through link design, it can be a bit picky on ammo that is shorter than milspec 30-06 ball ammo.

I ran across that issue a few years ago and it would simply push the belt just far enough forward in the feed tray that the extractor wouldn't catch the rims for belt extraction.

Hopefully I am understanding you right, and you are not meaning that you are having a belt advancement issue...?

 

[katazone]

Hahahahaha....My newbie guess was correct when we messaged (pm) and we were speaking the same language!
I think if the opportunity emerged, you'd be in for it's bigger brother too, to add to your family of big Cals.

I feel like if I ever went into your gun room I would have a similar reaction....

 

[Kevin M.]

Kevin, I think you described my suspicion. Are there any remedy for that? oh...I'm .308 but I assume same issue! Thx

Two options to my knowledge to remedy this problem... assuming it actually is the problem, but it can't hurt.

#1 is to install a short cartridge stop, assuming yours does not have it. Mine didn't when I received it, had a cgn buddy help me rivet mine in. Simple job really, involves one guy holding it firmly clamped and the other guy pounding the crap out of the outside of the pin to mushroom/ rivet it in place. Basically it was designed to allow the use of shorter non milspec ammo. It goes through a hole that should already be cut into the right plate of the gun and sits near the front right of the feed tray. This method works on holding the shoulder of the case far enough back to keep it at the right area for the extractor, as opposed to the original design, which iirc only uses the OAL of the cartridges bumping the front of the feed tray to accomplish that task.

Short cartridge stops look like this:

Or like this:

The top style is preferable if you have a choice.

Option 2 is to either use ammo that is close enough to the correct length to work, or to pull and reseat your ammo to correct length... which is a bit of a pain considering the volume you want to fire unless you are using a progressive press like a dillon 1050 or something else that can handle 30-06 remove the decapping dies, and just run only a neck sizing die to put a few thou neck tension back on the cartridges and a seating die, and perhaps a crimping die too for good measure.

Your best and easiest bet is to use ammo that you know works, even if it is a touch more money, next up is the cartridge stop, and finally to tune your already loaded factory ammo if you are up to putting in the time in the reloading room.

 

[Kevin M.]

Next time you are at the range, load up a short belt of the problem ammo and see if you can manually push the belt towards the muzzle of the feed tray far enough to cause the cartridge extractor to fail to grasp the rim of your cartridges. Should tell you what you need to know right there.

 

[katazone]

Once again Kevin very helpful. Appreciated. Proper size ammo is going to do for now. Short cartridge stop will have to be explored.
FYI, the little added spring behing the lever arm in to top cover did work! but It also decided to work without...Lol...since I tried with and without. Go figure?!?

Two options to my knowledge to remedy this problem... assuming it actually is the problem, but it can't hurt.

#1 is to install a short cartridge stop, assuming yours does not have it. Mine didn't when I received it, had a cgn buddy help me rivet mine in. Simple job really, involves one guy holding it firmly clamped and the other guy pounding the crap out of the outside of the pin to mushroom/ rivet it in place. Basically it was designed to allow the use of shorter non milspec ammo. It goes through a hole that should already be cut into the right plate of the gun and sits near the front right of the feed tray.


Option 2 is to either use ammo that is close enough to the correct length to work, or to pull and reseat your ammo to correct length... which is a bit of a pain considering the volume you want to fire unless you are using a progressive press like a dillon 1050 or something else that can handle 30-06 remove the decapping dies, and just run only a neck sizing die to put a few thou neck tension back on the cartridges and a seating die, and perhaps a crimping die too for good measure.

Your best and easiest bet is to use ammo that you know works, even if it is a touch more money, next up is the cartridge stop, and finally to tune your already loaded factory ammo if you are up to putting in the time in the reloading room.