I agree that the indoor experience doesn't apply to lead laying on the dirt as you say and the gopher type of poisoning is one that would be directly obvious if it applied to human beings and would probably have been frowned upon quite some time ago. I apologize if I got off track. Fred
Steel Shot for Clays
- Thread starter BCFred
- Start date
I agree that the indoor experience doesn't apply to lead laying on the dirt as you say and the gopher type of poisoning is one that would be directly obvious if it applied to human beings and would probably have been frowned upon quite some time ago. I apologize if I got off track. Fred
I am going to respond to my own post. I talked to my dad about this, he is a retired biologist for the national parks and a small time firearms collector. He pointed out any group that tells you they have 500 studies to back up there claim when the claim is something so exact is probably pushing a bit of BS. He suspected they probably have 500 studies confirming lead can be dangerous (mostly if you ingest it). But that would not be good science for a ban on lead for bullets. You would have to show that lead bullets are causing harm not just that lead can cause harm.
He confirmed for me that the science is very strong on waterfowl and lead in the lakes, but I don’t think anyone is debating that.
IMO this is another case of regulators picking away on small issues when there are much bigger issues that they should be addressing. Sure lead is bad, and the ban on using it for hunting shot is probably not a bad idea, but around clay target zones??
There are many more very serious environmental issues that the world (and Canada) faces, but most bureaucrats and politicians just want to justify their existence and create more of an empire for themselves as well as more work for their department to keep themselves looking good, employed and justify pay raises. As for doing the RIGHT thing, that's way down on the list of their priorities. This may sound cynical but I speak from experience. Otherwise, why do we see regulations getting more and more complex and none are ever subject to a sunset? There are many laws and regulations that date from 100 years ago, and are entirely irrelevant today, but they are still "the law". One quick example of over regulation -- I believe it's true that in most cities in Canada, you have to get three different (or maybe it's 4) approvals to install a new dishwasher in a restaurant followed by inspections!
There are many more very serious environmental issues that the world (and Canada) faces, but most bureaucrats and politicians just want to justify their existence and create more of an empire for themselves as well as more work for their department to keep themselves looking good, employed and justify pay raises. As for doing the RIGHT thing, that's way down on the list of their priorities. This may sound cynical but I speak from experience. Otherwise, why do we see regulations getting more and more complex and none are ever subject to a sunset? There are many laws and regulations that date from 100 years ago, and are entirely irrelevant today, but they are still "the law". One quick example of over regulation -- I believe it's true that in most cities in Canada, you have to get three different (or maybe it's 4) approvals to install a new dishwasher in a restaurant followed by inspections!
I feel a certain amount of sympathy for what you are saying sinokid. But, and it is a big 'but', it doesn't get US off from doing the right thing. I'm not convinced yet that lead is a big problem, as we use it in trap and skeet etc. I'm a little afraid of the issue too because I like using lead and don't want to change. I suspect most guys here stand about there too. But we won't have much excuse for going on the way we are if it turns out that lead is having a harmful effect, or that we are remiss in cleaning it up. I don't care how many politicians screw up! It's us, and our standards, that we are talking about, not theirs.
I generally agree with what you're saying. I like shooting skeet and lead is the only way to go. I don't want to see that change.
Since the regulations have already passed making lead illegal for bird hunting, let's not fight that one -- it would be Quixotic. We should concentrate on preserving lead for clays, and I'd try to do my bit for that.
However, my two main issues are cautionary:
1) let's do the best we can, but not be naive enough to think that democracy really allow common sense and freedom to prevail. As Winston Churchill is quoted as saying "democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time". Bureaucrats love to meddle and control.
2) why are THEY (the bureaucrats and politicians) even bothering with this issue? It's so trivial in terms of the big issues which Canada and mankind faces. The answer is because they can whip up popular opinion against firearms and lead and .... without any real logic. Again, I'm not saying we are doing a good job of presenting our case and we should do better, but it's an issue on which politicians think they can win votes and bureaucrats are right behind them because of the "make work" and "control" issues I mentioned. There is no serious consideration as to whether this or that is the RIGHT thing to do. It's about getting votes, and keeping and expanding power (seriously I witnessed this from a VERY senior level - it was sickening).
Since the regulations have already passed making lead illegal for bird hunting, let's not fight that one -- it would be Quixotic. We should concentrate on preserving lead for clays, and I'd try to do my bit for that.
However, my two main issues are cautionary:
1) let's do the best we can, but not be naive enough to think that democracy really allow common sense and freedom to prevail. As Winston Churchill is quoted as saying "democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time". Bureaucrats love to meddle and control.
2) why are THEY (the bureaucrats and politicians) even bothering with this issue? It's so trivial in terms of the big issues which Canada and mankind faces. The answer is because they can whip up popular opinion against firearms and lead and .... without any real logic. Again, I'm not saying we are doing a good job of presenting our case and we should do better, but it's an issue on which politicians think they can win votes and bureaucrats are right behind them because of the "make work" and "control" issues I mentioned. There is no serious consideration as to whether this or that is the RIGHT thing to do. It's about getting votes, and keeping and expanding power (seriously I witnessed this from a VERY senior level - it was sickening).
I believe the only thing I have seen in the ATA rulebook about steel is the traphouse has to have an exterior of non-ricocheting material. I can see steel in the future, hopefully the far far future, unfortunately my son will have to deal with it. Hopefully by then a new technology will save the day.
That is what concerns me the most. There is very little consideration of what the right thing is. I think that both sides are only pushing what they want to do.
I was at a DU shoot in the spring in Lloydminster, all the ammo provided was Kent 7 steel target ammo. Stuff shot very well and broke targets at any distance. I think this current offering is priced right at the same price as the 1oz lead load. FS
