Stg44 i wish

What caliber(s) are they making them in?


The historical ones are super cool. But a remake, in a different caliber, with tweaks to the design to make it more friendly to modern manufacturing techniques just doesn't do much for me. At the right price, sure I'd be interested, but I can pretty much guarantee these won't be at the right price...
 
They are cool from a small arms developmental perspective. Way over-engineered for the relatively low-powered cartridge that it fired, however sheet-metal pressing for firearms manufacture was in its infancy and better safe than sorry when it came to the overly-thick gauge of steel used in the Receiver stampings. That is why it is a 13 lb "monster" to carry and (occasionally) shoulder. A dream to fire however, especially in full-auto where it just sort of sits there with a gentle rearwards pressure. Not jarring recoil at all like an AKM, as the Stg44 receiver was long enough to permit Bolt-Carrier run-out under the Operating Spring's tension. So it just chugs away at a relatively sedate 600-ish rds/minute, easily putting 'em where it counts without drama out to 300m. Precisely as it was designed to do. Not bad for 1943 tech. The developmental race between the various wartime German manufacturers is in and of itself, an interesting read. The fact that they kept it a secret from the big cheese by calling it an SMG (MP-43/MP-44, with "MP" standing for Machine Pistol in German) is also interesting. The entire competitive development and testing process occurred right under the little moustache's nose, so to speak. They are a highly interesting footnote in history, although had the Americans given the M1 Carbine a Selector Switch prior to 1944 they would have been the first to issue an "Assault Rifle" by today's accepted definition of a shoulder-weapon firing an intermediate rifle/carbine cartridge with controllable, full-automatic capability.

The U.S. actually beat the Germans to the punch when it came to recognizing the need for an intermediate cartridge to bridge the pistol/rifle ammo gap that the SMG could not fill due to range limitations. The M1 Carbine was fielded in mid-1942, just as the Germans were getting down to detailed development of a similar weapon, although based on a different employment concept. Whereas the Americans saw the M1 Carbine as a stop-gap weapon for second-echelon support troops and F-echelon soldiers manning leadership positions or crew-served weapon systems, the Germans were looking for a widespread replacement for the bolt-action Mauser firing its overly-powerful 7.92mm full-sized round (aka: 8mm Mauser). The Germans intended to field entire units equipped with the MP-43/44/Stg-44, with the MP40 reserved for Crew-Served Weapon and Rear Echelon personnel. They were the first to recognize that the intermediate cartridge would permit controllable automatic fire in a select-fire carbine for general infantry use. The US did not figure that out with the M2 Carbine until experience was gained fighting in the Pacific jungles during the latter stages of WW2. The M2 Carbine did not see widespread issue until the Korean War kicked off in the summer of 1950 and still, the Americans did not really learn their lesson regarding the wisdom of using a true intermediate cartridge until the Vietnam War and the advent of the 5.56mm cartridge in the mid 1960s. The Russians figured it out in 1944/45 when they started capturing the Stg-44 in increasing numbers. They developed and kept the 7.62x39mm humming along uninterrupted until the 5.45mm cartridge was developed in the late 1970s/early 1980s. Not stupid, those Russians....but then neither were the Germans. Or the British with their 1950's .280 cartridge fired by the futuristic EM2 Bullpup Assault Rifle. We North Americans were kind of slow learners though, with the US not figuring things out until the 60s.


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They are cool from a small arms developmental perspective. Way over-engineered for the relatively low-powered cartridge that it fired, however sheet-metal pressing for firearms manufacture was in its infancy and better safe than sorry when it came to the overly-thick gauge of steel used in the Receiver stampings. That is why it is a 13 lb "monster" to carry and (occasionally) shoulder. A dream to fire however, especially in full-auto where it just sort of sits there with a gentle rearwards pressure. Not jarring recoil at all like an AKM, as the Stg44 receiver was long enough to permit Bolt-Carrier run-out under the Operating Spring's tension. So it just chugs away at a relatively sedate 600-ish rds/minute, easily putting 'em where it counts without drama out to 300m. Precisely as it was designed to do. Not bad for 1943 tech. The developmental race between the various wartime German manufacturers is in and of itself, an interesting read. The fact that they kept it a secret from the big cheese by calling it an SMG (MP-43/MP-44, with "MP" standing for Machine Pistol in German) is also interesting. The entire competitive development and testing process occurred right under the little moustache's nose, so to speak. They are a highly interesting footnote in history, although had the Americans given the M1 Carbine a Selector Switch prior to 1944 they would have been the first to issue an "Assault Rifle" by today's accepted definition of a shoulder-weapon firing an intermediate rifle/carbine cartridge with controllable, full-automatic capability.

The U.S. actually beat the Germans to the punch when it came to recognizing the need for an intermediate cartridge to bridge the pistol/rifle ammo gap that the SMG could not fill due to range limitations. The M1 Carbine was fielded in mid-1942, just as the Germans were getting down to detailed development of a similar weapon, although based on a different employment concept. Whereas the Americans saw the M1 Carbine as a stop-gap weapon for second-echelon support troops and F-echelon soldiers manning leadership positions or crew-served weapon systems, the Germans were looking for a widespread replacement for the bolt-action Mauser firing its overly-powerful 7.92mm full-sized round (aka: 8mm Mauser). The Germans intended to field entire units equipped with the MP-43/44/Stg-44, with the MP40 reserved for Crew-Served Weapon and Rear Echelon personnel. They were the first to recognize that the intermediate cartridge would permit controllable automatic fire in a select-fire carbine for general infantry use. The US did not figure that out with the M2 Carbine until experience was gained fighting in the Pacific jungles during the latter stages of WW2. The M2 Carbine did not see widespread issue until the Korean War kicked off in the summer of 1950 and still, the Americans did not really learn their lesson regarding the wisdom of using a true intermediate cartridge until the Vietnam War and the advent of the 5.56mm cartridge in the mid 1960s. The Russians figured it out in 1944/45 when they started capturing the Stg-44 in increasing numbers. They developed and kept the 7.62x39mm humming along uninterrupted until the 5.45mm cartridge was developed in the late 1970s/early 1980s. Not stupid, those Russians....but then neither were the Germans. We were kind of slow learners though....


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Great write up and photo, thanks Bartok
 
I believe Marstar and STG made some reproduction a few years back. I saw one on the EE last month. Over 5K, sold pretty quick. Cartridge is very hard to get and expensive.
 
I believe Marstar and STG made some reproduction a few years back. I saw one on the EE last month. Over 5K, sold pretty quick. Cartridge is very hard to get and expensive.

Marstar and Wolverine used to sell a variety of WW2 german repros made by SSD.

STG? If you mean SMG smith manufacturing group they only made FG-42 repros don't think any of their guns made it to Canada.
 
To add on to what Bartok said:

The Heer did some trials on replacing MG34/MG42 with the Sturmgewehr. IIRC, the conclusion was that this was possible in a pinch, but you just can't beat the firepower of the MGs (especially during the withdrawal when you're thinning out the line).

There were also at least one trial to evaluate the FG42s vs the Sturmgewehrs. The didn't go very far, but it's my recollection that the troops really liked/preferred the Sturmgewehrs. In the end the Heer stuck with the Sturmgewehr while the Luftwaffe went with the FG42. I do recall reading some accounts from the Fallshirmjaegers about how they really like the Sturmgewehrs when they could get their hands on them.

A bit problem was that the Germans were chronically short of 7.92x33. The just couldn't get industry to make enough ammo to met the projected expenditure by a wartime army. You might be thinking that being capable of full auto was the problem, but that wasn't the whole picture. Both production and distribution were challenging concerns in the latter half of the war.
 
I believe Marstar and STG made some reproduction a few years back. I saw one on the EE last month. Over 5K, sold pretty quick. Cartridge is very hard to get and expensive.

The SSD repro MP-44s sold for $10K when they were NR and available to all with deep pockets. A live 12(2) can probably be had for less than $3K these days. A live 12(3) would set you back $3-4K before the lab started insisting that every Converted-Auto be inspected prior to transfer. Nowadays, under the new "you may never see it" inspection rules I have no idea what a 12(3) MP-43/44/Stg-44 goes for. Modern, solid DEWATs are listed at $4K and up, but I cannot say what they actually sell for....

PPU 124 gr 7.92 Kurz ammo is available for $42.95 per 20 rounds. That is not bad at a little over $2 per round before shipping (if you buy in bulk to ammortize the shipping). It is clean, current-production ammo with reloadable brass casings, not some old, corroded steel-cased former East German fodder - so there is the value of the once-fired brass to consider as well...
 
Yeah found the original price, $2995 for the MP-44.

To rich for me at that age but oh how the times have changed. I really regret not grabbing one of these and FS2000 when Questar was still around.

It wasnt an unreasonable amount given what we pay now. Its just that they (SSD's) were jam-o- matic/break- o- matics!
 
It wasnt an unreasonable amount given what we pay now. Its just that they (SSD's) were jam-o- matic/break- o- matics!

How true !
I still have mine, bought in 2010 from Marstar, but have ended up replacing the bolt, bolt carrier with gas piston, and a lot of trigger group parts with original WWII parts, most of these SSD parts broke or simply wore out, some, like the sear and disconnector even caused doubling or tripling.
Since I did all the work it's reasonably reliable.
Of course have been reloading for this beast since I got it, one thing I found out real fast was not to use Federal primers, first time I did, rack the action and Boooom, slam fire, barrel was pointed down range so no harm done, but ever since that day I only use CCI 34 in that rifle !!
 
How true !
I still have mine, bought in 2010 from Marstar, but have ended up replacing the bolt, bolt carrier with gas piston, and a lot of trigger group parts with original WWII parts, most of these SSD parts broke or simply wore out, some, like the sear and disconnector even caused doubling or tripling.
Since I did all the work it's reasonably reliable.
Of course have been reloading for this beast since I got it, one thing I found out real fast was not to use Federal primers, first time I did, rack the action and Boooom, slam fire, barrel was pointed down range so no harm done, but ever since that day I only use CCI 34 in that rifle !!

I heard that some people did the WW2 parts replacement thing. That must have been a nightmare sourcing those parts, as its been ages since Ive seen them available, even back then.
I invested heavily in accessories/mags for re enacting before getting my SSD, and I lost:(
First rifle was a lemon, and the warranty replacement was as well. Marstar John certainly wasnt happy with SSD.

Really hope this company succeeds with their prototype!
 
I got lucky sourcing the parts through Gun Broker , all came (long time ago)from Europe, Bulgaria and Russia, NOS parts left by the Wehrmacht. I tried to get warranty from SSD, sent them emails but was turned down with the excuse that they could not export parts.
Although the internal parts were junk, looked like MIM produced , The brilliant reproduction of everything else made the refitting relatively easy. The metal stampings could have been made on the original dies from WWII.
 
The SSD repro MP-44s sold for $10K when they were NR and available to all with deep pockets. A live 12(2) can probably be had for less than $3K these days. A live 12(3) would set you back $3-4K before the lab started insisting that every Converted-Auto be inspected prior to transfer. Nowadays, under the new "you may never see it" inspection rules I have no idea what a 12(3) MP-43/44/Stg-44 goes for. Modern, solid DEWATs are listed at $4K and up, but I cannot say what they actually sell for....

PPU 124 gr 7.92 Kurz ammo is available for $42.95 per 20 rounds. That is not bad at a little over $2 per round before shipping (if you buy in bulk to ammortize the shipping). It is clean, current-production ammo with reloadable brass casings, not some old, corroded steel-cased former East German fodder - so there is the value of the once-fired brass to consider as well...

You can look up current prices on icollector. They are worth more dead than alive so efectivel any 12.2 or 12.3 if bought live still goes for the dead price.

Firing mine in FA is expensive so I don't do it much :( Though I finally have the tools to reload for it so maybe that would get the cost down...
 
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