Storing Handguns

I recently had a spare, older stack on (CT) that I replaced with an actual safe, and just for fun I took a pick axe and crow bar to it to see how long it would take me to "break in" to it. It took just under a minute to have the door cleanly off.

I store everything in a quality safe, give me a better peace of mind. Trigger locks on all restricted just because I will have to put them on before I go to the range. I use combo locks so no keys to forget.
 
Nope throw the ##### in the safe and that is it. I hope I never have to deal with a trigger lock in my life.
 
Llywelyn said:
I'm in the process of putting an addition onto my house which is going to include the master bedroom...and a closet for my firearm storage. Its probably going to be 5ft wide by 3ft deep.

Understanding that opinions expressed on the internet isn't legal advice....are there any extra steps I should take to make this "room" gun legal. Door with multiple locking points? steel in the walls, cement board, mulitple layers of sheetrock? Whats going to make this room/closet ok by legal standards...especially letter of the law standards. I'm not worried about my guns getting stolen or being accessed by unauthorized people....just meeting the law in case something happens and I get "inspected".

Anyone have experience with homemade gun storage devices? I know some of you have gun rooms...do you have anything more than a locked door in a 2x4 wall with two layers of sheetrock?

Thanks
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I've seen at least one gun room that used chain link fencing strips between the studs, and a steel door/frame.
 
mlehtovaara said:
You have been here long enough to know that the RCMP has used marketing to make their rulings over and over again. The logic of the police and courts may be different but in cases such as the GSG MP5, the S&W MP15-22, the Ruger BX mags, marketing has been used to determine their legality!
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Well, in certain cases such as the BX magazines, that is correct, mainly because the law states that a magazine designed and manufactured for use in a pistol has a limit of 10 rounds. As Ruger claimed that the BX mags were designed for use in both the Ruger 10/22 and the Charger, I happen to agree with the RCMP's decision based on how the law is written. As for the M&P 15 and GSG MP5 (I've only had the chance to look at the S&W), I believe that they are imitations, but not true variants, of the original guns.

Also remember that for something like what constitutes a safe, we are basing it on the definition of the word, what it means in the language, and not on some specific aspect of its design in relation to the design of other things.

If we think about this in a technical manner, we can determine that we can classify objects based on their features they possess, and any object containing those necessary traits must be classified as such.

Based on the definition of a safe understood by English speakers (i.e. in the dictionary), a safe must have the following traits:

1. A secure construction, usually of metal. (Check)
2. A secure lock. (Check)
3. Designed for storing valuables. (Check)

So with these features present, how can you separate the classification of the Stack-On "cabinets" from heavier safes, like a Browning, without creating extra criteria and going beyond the definition of a safe?
 
And even with all this discussion, we forget.... the storage laws are for Safety! Not for Anti-theft! Yet we always concentrate on defining safes as a theft prevention.
 
enefgee said:
As long as it has a multi point locking system, according to a judge in Ontario, the last time LE went on a fishing expedition, and tried to charge a guy for not having a "safe". The judge's opinion was based on the fact that the throw latches (parts that actually provide the locking) on the box were in more than a single location. You guys should really keep up to date on this stuff. Incidently, the cops and Crown were laughing too, until their case got booted and of course precident was set.
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I thought I had already put the following info in this thread. There must be another one going on somewhere. (Or I meant to add it and didn't.)

For those interested, these are some of the points made by that Ontario Judge in regard to storage. I have edited parts to keep it to the point.

This is from the Canlii document. I don't have the link.

[10] The guns in issue were housed in metal cabinets in a locked bedroom. Sixteen of the automatic firearms were located beside the closet in a gray steel cabinet, 1 which had a t-shaped handle with a lock in it.
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- - - This sound like an office cabinet?

After a key is used to unlock that cabinet, the handle must be turned in
order to release metal rods in the top, bottom and centre of the door that slide into the frame of the unit. The other two prohibited firearms were in a padlocked steel cabinet at the foot of the bed, near the window.

[11] The defendant purchased the cabinets he used to store his guns at a government auction. He agreed they all had air vents and did not have seals around the doors.
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- - - Still sounding like an ordinary office cabinet.

None of the cabinets had an electronic lock or a key pad or a drill-resistant steel plate behind the locks.


[13] Richard Comblum was qualified as a defence expert in firearms and their storage. Mr.Comblum is the president of Movie Armaments Group, a supplier of firearms and military equipment to the movie industry. His company is licenced to manufacture, transport, import,
1 Photographs of this cabinet were made exhibit lD, p.8-ll.
2 See exhibit 9.
3 His curriculum vitae was made exhibit 1 C.

export and store prohibited firearms and weapons. Mr. Comblum is a licenced gunsmith and is licenced to possess prohibited firearms. In Mr. C6mblum's opinion, a safe is a metal-sided
cabinet that locks. He referred to a definition of"safe" from Black's Law Dictionary cited in an
article on "Safe and Legal Storage ofNon-restricted Firearms" from the National Firearms
Association on the Great Canadian Sportsman website.4 The definition describes a safe as a
"metal container for the storage of valuables". On this basis, Mr. Comblum testified that he believes the defendant's gun lockers are safes.

[15] The dictionary definitions of "safe" generally describe the noun as a "strong container,
usually of metal, and provided with a secure lock for storing valuables": see Black's Law Dictionary, 5th edition;

[18] Parliament's purpose in enacting the firearms legislation was to restrict the possession of potentially dangerous weapons to properly licenced individuals and businesses, for the safety of the public. The storage regulations are designed to ensure that inappropriate persons, such as
children, emotionally distressed or violent individuals, do not have ready access to firearms that could harm them or others: see Reference re: Firearms Act, [2000] S.C.J. NQ 31 at ~22-24, 57. In
addition, where prohibited firearms are involved, collectors are "attractive targets for thieves" who intend to use the guns or sell them to others, thereby endangering the community: see R. v.Hasselwander, supra at ~40.


[19] Even where a gun storage unit is described as a "safe", there may be considerable variations in its characteristics, including size, weight, wall thickness, the location of the hinges,
the nature of the locking mechanism and resistance to water or fire: see, for example, exhibits 3A, 3B, 7 A, 7B, 10, 11, 13. Unlike jurisdictions such as California, Parliament has not chosen to designate minimum standards for gun safes or certify certain types of safes as meeting the regulatory requirements.

[22] I find that the cabinets in which the defendant's prohibited firearms were stored fall within the definition of a safe. Both of the lockers in which the prohibited firearms were stored were made of steel. Each cabinet was securely locked: one by a key and a padlock; the other by a locking system that uses a key to unbolt rods in the door from the frame of the unit. Indeed, despite their disagreement on other issues, the Crown and the defence expert both accepted that the units were securely locked. The Crown has not proven beyond a reasonable doubt that there was non-compliance with the regulation. The charges are dismissed.
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Llywelyn said:
I'm in the process of putting an addition onto my house which is going to include the master bedroom...and a closet for my firearm storage. Its probably going to be 5ft wide by 3ft deep.

Understanding that opinions expressed on the internet isn't legal advice....are there any extra steps I should take to make this "room" gun legal. Door with multiple locking points? steel in the walls, cement board, mulitple layers of sheetrock? Whats going to make this room/closet ok by legal standards...especially letter of the law standards. I'm not worried about my guns getting stolen or being accessed by unauthorized people....just meeting the law in case something happens and I get "inspected".

Anyone have experience with homemade gun storage devices? I know some of you have gun rooms...do you have anything more than a locked door in a 2x4 wall with two layers of sheetrock?

Thanks
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You should start your own thread on this. "Suggestions for securing a gun safe?"

But for an idea, here's how I'll install my hidden safe.

safemounting.jpg


Hopefully I can post photos now. But basically replace the inside and bottom layer of outside drywall with 3/4" ply. You can use 3/4" drywall here to make everything level. Double up the studs so you're securing the ply to 4x6 posts (or 3½" anyway). Use lots of screws so that ply is secure. You'll finish the inside of the closet and mount the safe before finishing the outside wall - the securing hardware will be buried in the wall. Use plate steel, not washers, to spread out the load. I suggest ply outside too to prevent access to the fasteners should someone attempt to knock the drywall off and see what's holding it in.

I added a floor plate in my drawing as I'll have basement access. I don't know if you can do the same.
 
hi, i'm a collector, my gunsmith said i should have a steel door or a plate of steel on one side(inside) of the gun room.i also built my own bars for the window in the room. when inspected by the loacal police they said i was way beyond what was required by law.trigger locks on rifles ,not needed, handguns trigger locked and put in separated transport suit cases.all these in the gun room,oh ya ammo stored in garage in steel boxes 12,000 rounds,limit of 50,000.
 
ammo storage and limits

yes 50000 round limit, after that you need a store type licence. this is under the mining act, along with limits on black and smokeless powder stc.
 
Mine all hang on the wall with no trigger locks, the are "locked" in my gun "room" that has been "modified" to "specifically" store my firearms safely.

"Lock the firearms in a vault, safe or room that was built or modified specifically to store firearms safely."

Insurance will buy me new ones if they were to ever get stolen, and don't forget...Locks only keep out the honest thieves!
 
insured?

i've got 112 guns the insurance would be like a car payment monthly!you have to have them apprasied and values listed for each.
 
either trigger locked, or breach cable lock, or dissasembled completely in field stripped. receivers/ frames separate, or without anything if in a safe, mags loaded, stored separate.
 
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