84wh1
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
If u ask kiddX I am sure he will say that it's a piece of junk
Strike Eagle zeroing issues
- Thread starter Jonty
- Start date
If u ask kiddX I am sure he will say that it's a piece of junk
You're comparing a reddot to a low powered variable optic...
They're decent quality if it's the high end stuff but not top shelf. There's a thread in here about a guy who killed an S3(https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1625071-338-378-Weatherby-Magnum-broke-another-scope) as well as other optics on his rifle. I wouldn't trust my life to a Sightron and for the price of their S3 series there are better options available. I asked Jerry from Mystic Precision to elaborate on the construction methods and QC used in Sightron optics and he never responded...
Are you saying that Vortex, Leupold or Sightron are top tier optics?? If so then please validate that claim with some hard data. As I posted above and in another thread, I asked Jerry from Mystic Precision(a Sightron dealer) to elaborate on the construction methods of Sightron scopes. He has yet to respond. Have a look at the Nightforce website, they'll clearly tell you how their optics are made and just what insane standards they adhere to. Let me link it for you so you don't have to go looking.
http://www.nightforceoptics.com/technology
My statements are not "elitist" they are common sense and factual. Again, if you are unable to adjust your financial priorities so as to afford quality equipment then the problem is you. If you are a dabbler in shooting then cheap kit is where you will invest. If you're serious about your discipline and desire great performance then you will find the finances and adjust your priorities accordingly.
What's laughable are the never ending stories of failed Vortex(or other low end brand) optics that are immediately dismissed as acceptable due to their "amazing" warranty. That kind of delusional thinking is what keeps companies like Vortex in business.
I do however agree that not everyone needs the absolute best optic/rifle/etc available for their specific role or puprose. However, don't pretend that your lesser needs and willingness to accept average to below average products means your choice is a good one. Better to have an overrated optic for the role than an underrated optic for the role.
Again, one off stories of optics that work while not knowing round count, calibre, rifle, conditions, etc means absolutely nothing. I once made 400 metre hits on clay pigeons with one scope ring backed right off. That doesn't mean I suggest you only use one scope ring.
Slug guns are far from accurate so a properly tracking optic is not entirely necessary. Again, without round count, conditions of use etc this is just a less than interesting piece of a story.
Aimpoint makes good products, their PRO is their economy line but is still well made.
84wh1
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Random YouTube videos mean squat dude. Please show me some concrete data regarding leupold using cheap chinese components on high end Mark series scopes
I'm sorry did you not see the failed tracking of the optics in the video? Like any data, unless you were there it could always be BS but I doubt the poster has anything to gain by lying.
Below is a link to Leupold's website where they indicate their lenses come from Asia. Now they don't say Japan which would be something to be proud of as the Japanese produce amazing optics. No, Leupold says their lenses come from the CONTINENT of Asia, which means their glass comes from the Philippines or China, neither of which are worth bragging about. It also appears that Leupold has changed their website and no longer include the information that they source "primarily their lenses but other components as well from Asia."
Here's a link from another forum from years back with the actual quote that used to be on Leupold's site.
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2039566
If Leupold or any other brand was confident in their products and where they source their parts they wouldn't hesitate to say so. Leupold will only indicate which continent their glass and other components come from, that would be a clue. Leupold is definitely not using Schott glass and they most likely aren't using Japanese glass either.
I doubt you even followed the links I posted. Have a look at the other tracking test videos from that poster. Some high dollar optics don't track so well. Again, I don't see Vortex, Leupold or Sightron disclosing their rigorous manufacturing and test protocols.
Well KidX all I can say is I don't need to go and dig around the interweb to feel confident in my choice of optics. My VX3's Leupold's have held up for years chasing big game all over the province in every type of weather situation had in Sask. My VX6 bangs around in my truck and on my quad all winter hunting coyotes and it still drops them..In fact I just shot one this morning with my .204/VX6 combo. I hunt and shoot something year round but I guess thats just dabbling....guess Im not like you jumping out of plane in hostile territory taking out the enemy at 3000 yards.
Just like others have mentioned...random youtube videos and archaic posts of "predator masters" is hardly proof of anything.
Again your blanket statements like " Sightron suck" Leupold are low end" are laughable.
Just like others have mentioned...random youtube videos and archaic posts of "predator masters" is hardly proof of anything.
Again your blanket statements like " Sightron suck" Leupold are low end" are laughable.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Kidd X, I have no need to respond... you have your mind made up... you like what you like, good for you. If you really want to ask the question, go chat with the tech folk at Sightron.
A scope failing due to poor install is not the fault of the scope... regardless of the brand. Any install that leaves deep grooves in the side of scope tubes, isn't doing the optics any favors.
Sightrons have happily lived on 50BMG and won some nice big matches in the US. They are a very popular brand in the UK for Field shooting... yeah, ultra precise focus control and survive being on an air rifle.
My SIII has put me on 2 Cdn National Teams and a number of podiums including 2017 Washington State Palma and LR wins. My SV helped me to 2nd last weekend but would have been gold if the guy steering didn't have a major brain fart.
Just did a tall target test with the SV. Passed with flying colours.
I have run an STAC (cheap scope) hard all season dialing from 250yds out to 1445yds. Seems to keep putting them bullets on the targets.. and I am testing to see if it will fail. Seems to hold POI well enough to get my Rem 783 into the 1/4 to 1/3 min range at 280yds.
I guess the Sightron Engineers are concerned about tracking and the durability to help shooters get on podiums and hit their targets. I know they don't design their scopes to be used as hammers.
Decide on your end use needs.. pick the product that will help you get it done. Every need will have a perfect blend of product and price and no one brand covers it all.
YMMV
Jerry
A scope failing due to poor install is not the fault of the scope... regardless of the brand. Any install that leaves deep grooves in the side of scope tubes, isn't doing the optics any favors.
Sightrons have happily lived on 50BMG and won some nice big matches in the US. They are a very popular brand in the UK for Field shooting... yeah, ultra precise focus control and survive being on an air rifle.
My SIII has put me on 2 Cdn National Teams and a number of podiums including 2017 Washington State Palma and LR wins. My SV helped me to 2nd last weekend but would have been gold if the guy steering didn't have a major brain fart.
Just did a tall target test with the SV. Passed with flying colours.
I have run an STAC (cheap scope) hard all season dialing from 250yds out to 1445yds. Seems to keep putting them bullets on the targets.. and I am testing to see if it will fail. Seems to hold POI well enough to get my Rem 783 into the 1/4 to 1/3 min range at 280yds.
I guess the Sightron Engineers are concerned about tracking and the durability to help shooters get on podiums and hit their targets. I know they don't design their scopes to be used as hammers.
Decide on your end use needs.. pick the product that will help you get it done. Every need will have a perfect blend of product and price and no one brand covers it all.
YMMV
Jerry
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Now maybe Leupold made these "Special" but I had a chance to watch a US Army Marksmanship training team do their thing out to 1000yds with their 300WM's.
Seemed to hammer the center of the targets just fine....
Jerry
84wh1
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
You may have miunderstood my statement. My point was that these are great optics that have survived battle engagements for years. Military and law enforcement will speak of how good the quality is. Chinese junk they are not.
84wh1
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
You may have miunderstood my statement. My point was that these are great optics that have survived battle engagements for years. Military and law enforcement will speak of how good the quality is. Chinese junk they are not.
Wow, some people are really worked up over this. Nowhere did I say you were a dabbler but they are far more common than not. Nowhere did I say was a service member as I am not nor do I engage in cool guy operations as you wrongly assume. The videos linked are not "random" they clearly show some expensive optics not tracking worth a damn. The forum post was merely to illustrate what used to be posted on Leupolds' site regarding their parts sourcing. As I posted previously it appears they have scrubbed that from the site, I wonder why??? Remember Leupold oly "assembles" in the USA they are not "made" in the USA..
So you're saying my linked videos of Leupold optics failing a tracking test are null and void but your anecdotal claim from unknown service members is valid? No disrespect to service members but they use what they're given and generally haven't a clue about any alternatives. Not everyone who is or was deployed uses Leupold, not by a large margin.
Would you not want to pump up your product lines Jerry? You talk about how awesome the Sightron line is and by your post it sounds like they're serving you well. I'm genuinely interested in the manufacturing process. I thought you as a dealer and long time user would have some insight as to how well they are made, I guess that was a mistake...
Again..some lame hipster posting on Youtube and some scrubbed off page on Leupold's 2001 website doesn't prove anything...animals on the ground do the talking. Leupold Optics are proven in the field every year and if I ever run into a problem Leupold will fix it with a week or so.
ComradeVlad
Regular
- Location
- To the West
Vortex has been good to me so far..... when I mounted my Strike eagle to my Benelli MR1, it was a good thing the scope has ALOT of room for adjustment. Because the scope was initially off by like 8 feet @ 50m!!
Not sure if the scope came from the factory with the dials cranked, or if me flipping the MR1's base 180 degrees caused that.
Not sure if the scope came from the factory with the dials cranked, or if me flipping the MR1's base 180 degrees caused that.
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Jerry's opinion on precision optics means more than most given his credentials and titles to prove it. A youtube video is interesting but one test on one scope hardly means a lot, and personal experience means more than secondhand experience from youtube.
So what are your own credentials then? What competitions have you won? You've made some right clever remarks about dabblers and so on - what have you done to allow us to consider that your opinion is worth anything? Or are you only a dabbler as well?
mebiuspower
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Morontario
You can read his quote in my sig. One of the best things I've ever read on CGN.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Do alittle research in to the number and scale of optics production in the Phillipines.... Yeah, it would certainly surprise you. It did me.
And optical lenses include stuff going into med grade microscopes and other devices.
Think Nikon... and much more. But hey, why make an informed opinion when any opinion will do....
Jerry
I make my own lenses, machine my own tubes and mechanics, I then assemble the scope my self and purge it with a unicorn fart, they are the best in the world and never fail.
Anyway, have a bad cold and need more meds, everyone continue on.
Anyway, have a bad cold and need more meds, everyone continue on.
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Did I get under your skin a little??
First off you don't have to be an accomplished shooter to not be a dabbler. The typical dabbler is the guy who shoots once or twice a year and rarely owns a firearm long enough to see 4 digit round counts. The dabbler can also be the guy who must have all the latest gadgets and yet still can't achieve even an average level of competency.
One test on one scope isn't the absolute gospel on the subject, but unlike someone's opinion it is factual and undeniable. I'm not saying Jerry is a liar but I am saying that talk is just that, talk. Never lose sight of the fact that Jerry sells optics to include Sightron so talking up the brand is in his best interest. As for winning competitions, who cares.. Every match and every discipline is different, some are done on well manicured ranges with zero chance for rough handling of the equipment while others are quite the opposite. The vast majority of gun owners have bought and paid for their own gear. I highly doubt any of us are in the habit of regularly abusing our gear. Taking someone's opinion on their "match" wins means just as little as their personal opinions on unicorns.
What I've posted in the past and with the videos above is not my opinion but fact. Feel free to read up on the manufacturing processes of Nightforce and then try and find similar specs from the other companies mentioned, I haven't found any data. I'm sure Sightron/Vortex/Leupold polish their turret springs for two weeks before they inspect and install them. I'm sure they spend many times more on that(titanium) spring like Nightforce does. I'm sure the other guys use tubes 2-3x thicker than most in the industry like Nightforce does. There are other points as well but I think you get the idea.
Here's a durability test for you. I know, it's just a video which means nothing. Oddly enough I could only find similar videos for Leupold scopes, nothing for Vortex or Sightron.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQRe_-fgmGQ
http://nightforceoptics.com/news
Just because your optic says "Philippines"(that's the proper spelling) doesn't mean it is well made nor does it mean it uses quality components. The best glass comes out of Schott in Germany and a close second comes from sources in Japan. I'm sure China, Philippines, and South Korea are capable of producing high end components, but the reality is no one sources their goods from those nations because of quality. They're sourced because of price. This again all comes back around to the repair or replace mentality. High end optics repair their products because it is more cost effective than replacing them.
More to the point, optical lenses in medical microscopes, cameras or other appliances does not translate directly to the same being used in rifle optics nor does it mean they are the best lenses. The lenses in a rifle scope are but one component and are far from the most important but I'm sure you knew that. Tracking would rank much higher than the lenses for me and overall durability would be a close second. If an optic doesn't track properly or isn't robust who cares about the lenses it uses??
