Stun Baton Legality westrifle.com

Mr.Rigpig said:
What does it matter why he had it in his car? The device is legal. It was not being used illegally. I think that cop is just on a power trip and should lose his job. Prove intent? Does that mean that because I own firearms I should be arrested and have to prove in court that I'm not going to commit murder? What happened to innocent UNTIL proven guilty.
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Exactly, 90% of the time when I'm in my truck my xcr-m is on my dash and loaded mags are in the cup holders.
 
LeducAb said:
Sounds like there is more to that story, but exactly the point I made earlier about intent.
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The only reason they knew I had it,was my son told his friend at school & then got questioned by the teacher , then they called the Abby PD cause they thought that the baton was illegal. I told & showed the Cst the law & he still took it.
 
canadiantbone said:
The only reason they knew I had it,was my son told his friend at school & then got questioned by the teacher , then they called the Abby PD cause they thought that the baton was illegal. I told & showed the Cst the law & he still took it.
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I would have politely acknowledged the officer and said I have nothing to say. A RCMP officer asked me to produce a firearm once upon a time. My response was you do not have the power to compel me to do that. It took 3 or 4 months but I did get all my stuff back. If the police want to make themselves look stupid and waste money I will help them do so.
 
canadiantbone said:
The only reason they knew I had it,was my son told his friend at school & then got questioned by the teacher , then they called the Abby PD cause they thought that the baton was illegal. I told & showed the Cst the law & he still took it.
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That teacher sounds like a typical busy body. I'd be having something to say to them I think.
 
bobdbldr said:
Yes I think the police would raise an eyebrow, but where I walk in the city, there are lots of dogs and people don't seem to think they have to heel their dogs as they walk by you a lot of the time! I seen 3 teen girls the other night down at the park walking a pit bull,, pit bulls are no problem but they were just able to hold it and there was nothing around it at the time! Had we walked by them, they would not be able to hold it, should the dog decide to check us out or worse! That's where the baton comes in. I believe, just the noise would scare away most animals and the ones that don't,, well they get to try out the juicy end of the stick! I would rather have a discussion with a cop, or even a judge than go to the emerg. Part of it is peace of mind too, not as worried about what is around you when you are carrying these, not the best solution but better than nothing!
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I'm on the bring of carrying dog spray with me when I am out and about... one incident too many in recent months where a pit bull type dog off its leash came a bit too close and did not seem friendly towards my dog. Never mind they are required to be on leash with a muzzle in Ont. Pit bull owner types tend not to care about that law.
 
kodiakjack said:
Methinks westrifle needs separate business and personal accounts.

Having a front row seat to a firearms dealer getting their regulatory advice from an online forum does not instill confidence. If that's how dealers are rolling, I'd rather not know. Ignorance is bliss, as they say.
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Agreed... You would think a dealer would know how to search from official sources for the answers they need.
 
Mr.Rigpig said:
What does it matter why he had it in his car? The device is legal. It was not being used illegally. I think that cop is just on a power trip and should lose his job. Prove intent? Does that mean that because I own firearms I should be arrested and have to prove in court that I'm not going to commit murder? What happened to innocent UNTIL proven guilty.
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Read 88(1) CCC and case law surrounding it.
 
canadiantbone said:
I bought on from Hical and had in confiscated by the Abbotsford PD . (no I was not using it on anyone or anything other than flies) my response from the abby PD below.

Hi Tino,

I answered your question with respect to obtaining a copy of the report, you can apply for it through the FOI. With respect to the putting a stop to importing the device, that is a question you will have to ask CBSA and other government entities. As far as the other devices you mentioned, that would need to be investigated should one be seized from anyone and again an expert opinion would need to be sought.

Please keep in mind that anything can be purchased on the internet from anywhere. The buyer of any item(s) must ensure that they conform with our Canadian laws and regulations if they are being brought into this country.

Cst Troughton 397
Abbotsford Police

Thanks for your fairly quick response,

but you still leave me with unanswered question. How do I get a copy of Cst Quaglia report ? Are you then going to put a stop to the importer of said devise ? If I go and purchase the stun/flashlight walking cane , is it also a prohibited devise? If I were to be in possession of a cattle prod , is that a prohibited device. It looks as though you are leaving me with no choice but to seek legal counsel on these matters & to proceed as needed.


Thanks, Tino

On May 3rd, 2016 Cst Quaglia of the APD, a court expert with respect to non firearm prohibited weapons inspected the said weapon seized from you by Cst Moore on April 4th 2016. The seized weapon in question was a stun baton flashlight.

Cst Quaglia provided a detailed written report; as a result of that report which cited excertpts of Legislation from the Criminal Code of Canada and open source information, his expert opinion based on his training and knowledge of Canadian Law with respect to non firearm prohibited weapons backed by his Court appointed "expert" designation, Cst Quaglia has determined the stun baton flashlight a prohibited weapon by definition of the Criminal Code of Canada.

As you are most likely aware, anyone found in possession of a prohibited weapon in Canada is subject to arrest for several different criminal offences based on why it is in ones possession and why it was intended to be used or was used.

Based upon the findings of Cst Quaglia, the stun baton flashlight will not be returned to you. The prohibited weapon will be retained by the APD for training and educational purposes to educate other police officers in the effort to continue to keep and maintain our community safety commitment.

As per APD policy, I am not able to provide you with a copy of Cst Quaglia's report. If you should require a copy of that report you will need to apply for it through the Freedom Of Information Act (FOI). The APD front counter staff will be more than happy to assist you in that matter if required.

Thank you for your understanding.

With respect;

Cst Chris Troughton 397
Abbotsford Police

Hi Constable Troughton,

I'm not sure if you received my previous emails ; so I will repeat what was sent in them . I know that you are aware that Constable Moore confiscated my stun baton , citing that it was a prohibited weapon. I explained to him that in the 2016 Martins Annual Criminal Code(Canada law book) that on page 183, section 84 , FORMER Prohibited weapons order Part 3 , number 6 STATES :

- 6 Any device that is designed to be capable of injuring, immobilizing or incapacitating a person or an animal by discharging an electrical charge produced by means of the amplification or accumulation of the electrical current generated by a battery, where the device is designed or altered so that the electrical charge may be discharged when the device is of a length of less than 480 mm, and any similar device..

Even with this information , Constable Moore insisted that I was wrong & he would advise you & let me know his findings. I then received a phone call from Cst. Moore citing that you had confirmed that the stun baton was indeed a prohibited weapon. I have since checked with the R.C.M.P. & again with the current criminal Code & find both of you incorrect. Since then I have contacted Legal counsel & have been advised that neither you or Constable Moore have filed a 5.2 with the Provincial court of Abbotsford. I am hoping that you can admit your mistake & return my baton (in good working order) to avoid me having to proceed with further legal action.


Thank you , Tino
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Was it less than 480mm in length? Flashlights usually are.
 
Jericho said:
Read 88(1) CCC and case law surrounding it.
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Possession of weapon for dangerous purpose. What exactly was the "dangerous purpose" in this. He was driving down the highway.

If he was doing something stupid, fine. If not????

Like I said before, I own firearms. My wife does as well. Does that mean we are criminals? Should we turn ourselves in?

Also admit to not reading everything regarding 88(1) CCC, so feel free to exploit my ignorance. After all, that's how we learn. I just see this as a ignorant cop making life difficult just because he can. Does he do the same to people that have golf clubs in the back of their truck when it is night time? Can't golf in the dark.... Prove it to the judge you weren't going to go commit an offence.

Either that or we did not get the whole story.
 
I got so many interesting stories from asking this question. Why do you care if I am a dealer or not. If you don't like it then don't read it. I hate comments like that.
Onagoth said:
Agreed... You would think a dealer would know how to search from official sources for the answers they eneed.
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Seriously, just because a dealer is expert in importing firearms, it doesn't mean he is ( or he Shiism be) an expert in dealing with any other weapons like baton. I don't know about baton myself either. Unless you deal with that area, you cannot be expected to know everything about everything. Give your head a shake!!!

There is nothing wrong with asking about things not within your own expertise.
 
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