Interesting side topic going on here about assult weapons. I think it started way back with someone comparing a M1 carbine to the Sturm 44. My only take is I am pretty sure that the real historical signifiance of the Sturm 44 was that it is considered the first real assult rifle to appear on the scene with that classic assult look. What look is that you ask? Well the most famous assult rifle of all time the AK-47 was basically copied from the Sturmgewehr 44. So uncle AK owes his design to the Sturm. The 7.62mm x 39 AK round was even copied from the Kurtz 7.92mm. Many collectors consider the Sturm the Grand Daddy of Assult Rifles. To me the M1 carbine does not even come close to being mixed in with this class. But remember boys and girls the MI carbine's big brother the Garand was invented by a Canadian. 30-06 IN SEMI can really scew up your day. Still ain't an assult rifle
Sturmgewehr 44 Given away
- Thread starter K98ACTION
- Start date
Lapsang Souchong said:
The problem with classing the Federov's rifle as an assult rifle hinges on whether or not you consider 6.5x50 japanese to be an intermediate cartridge or a rifle cartridge.
Personally I consider it a rifle cartridge and as such the StG.44 was the first production select fire rifle built around an intermediate round, thus it's the first assault rifle.
K98ACTION said:
The AK-47 is a copy of so many rifles, this comment isn't really fair. Certainly the Soviets copied the assault rifle principle, but not the StG.44's design. Although Hugo Schmeisser was reported to have worked in the same factory developing the AK-47 after the war.
K98ACTION said:
Nope, the two are very different rounds, it's actually rumored to be a copy of a experimental GECO 7.62x41mm round. Prior to Haenal getting the order to design a rifle around the 8mm kurz cartridge, Vollamer was experimenting with an assault rifle and testing several different calibers one of which was the GECO round.
Agreed, I guess design was to heavy of a word, but I think the point I was trying to put across, is the similarity of the look. What joe public pictures as an assult rifle. Image is everything, why do you think the EPS took advantage of the PR by showing off their big catch in the paper during the amnesity?
Yeah, even the cartridge issue, all I meant to say was the AK ammo to me is just similar to the Kurtz 8 in that it's intermeadiate as well. But as for the two Ass rifles together, I don't know a whole lot about the Stg. 44 but it looks tres cool in the hands of a Waffen SS combat soldier back in 45.
Yeah, even the cartridge issue, all I meant to say was the AK ammo to me is just similar to the Kurtz 8 in that it's intermeadiate as well. But as for the two Ass rifles together, I don't know a whole lot about the Stg. 44 but it looks tres cool in the hands of a Waffen SS combat soldier back in 45.
Yes,the German army was great,my grand father was in ww2 in Romanian infantry backed by German artilery,at a moment in their front was powerfull soviet movement with tanks,the German artilery protected them so well that in 3-4 hours the field was full of soviet tanks on fire.K98ACTION said:
Cornel
Several Canadian police forces have a mechanism in place to protect historical firearms turned in. A form can be filled out which indicates the firearm has historical value and must be preserved rather than submitted for destruction. The only problem is officers may not know what they have when it is turned in and by the time an officer who is a collector finds out its is gone. The Canadian War Museum is very helpfull in these situations.
I think a big part of the owness lies on us as the collectors to make our intentions known to our families to avoid are loved collectables ending up at the police station submitted for destruction.
Another solution is to find a wife who does not hate your collections which has consumed many years of time and understands that at least when you go she can sell them off for some coin to other collectors.
I think a big part of the owness lies on us as the collectors to make our intentions known to our families to avoid are loved collectables ending up at the police station submitted for destruction.
Another solution is to find a wife who does not hate your collections which has consumed many years of time and understands that at least when you go she can sell them off for some coin to other collectors.
Lapsang Souchong said:Arn't assault rifles supposed to be select fire (or full automatic)?
Anyway...the federov avtomat looks like the first assault rifle adopted by armed forces...it was used by Russia from 1916 through the 1920's until all rifles using non-standard ammunition were retired.
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as86-e.htm
Some of the AVFs were hauled out for the Winter War.
bas said:
Federov's logic was sound vis a vis a select fire infantry rifle, but he was compelled to use what was available in Russia during WW1.
As the 7.62 M91 cartrige was not suitable for a light select fire rifle Federov chose the 6.5x50 SR Arisaka T30 cartrige, which was in limited use in the Russian Army (Russia was plagued by arms shortages and received the T38s which were discarded by Britain's Royal Navy).
If we put aside the definition of "Assault Rifle" based on the strict (post WWII) definition of what an intermediate cartrige is, i.e. intermediate in power between the pistol and battle rifle round, we can see clearly the intent of Federov's design: to provide a controllable automatic shoulder weapon to the infantry in order to increase the firepower of the individual soldier. This is the essence of the assault rifle concept.
KungFooBob said:I thought this thread was going to be about a raffle...
Ya...me too
I need another MP-STG44
And...the MKb-42 fired from an open bolt....so its kinda a sub gun...no rilfe accuracy
after test it was decided that closed bolt was the way to go as cook-offs didnt seem to be a problem
