Suggestions for a "big and slow" caliber?
- Thread starter Suther
- Start date
hometownhero
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Toon Town, Sk
45/70 with 500gr cast bullets. If that doesn’t float your boat 458 win mag with the same bullets. If still not floating 500 s&w with 700gr bullets.
I'm with dogleg.....bite the financial bullet and go 375 H&H and load to what ever level you deem fit. There just isn't a better medium bore for anything than the 375 H&H. You can also make jacketed bullets from spent 223 brass and some melted lead and shoot for next to nothing without worrying about leading your bore. Bullets are readily available from 220 gn to 350 gn and a lot of the basic cup and core are cheap too. They are also adequate for hunting with the reduced velocities you are quoting.
You will also find that your 375 H&H will never fall from vogue and will appreciate over the years, so you will never lose a nickel on it. With the overall popularity of the 375 H&H you will always be able to find brass and bullets, for the rest of your life and your grandson's life. It is the 30-06 of the medium bores and there are so many out there in use that it will never die or even become endangered.
Zastava makes one that is relatively inexpensive and there is almost always 1F brass of one make or another on the EE. If you decide to go with a 375 H&H I can probably help you out with some brass......I have about 600 I think.....I could likely spare 50 to get you started.
I currently own three 375 H&Hs, a 375 Ruger, a 375 Wby and a 378 Wby.........so as you can see I am "familiar with that of which I speak". You will never regret purchasing a 375 H&H, it can be a pussy cat to shoot if you load it as such and it comes real close to a hell fire, fire breathing dragon if you choose to load it as such.
It has another attribute which a lot of people don't know......it tends to shoot a wide range of bullet weights to the same POI. This was a design criteria of Holland & Holland when they designed the cartridge as a "one gun does all" African rifle.
Take it from someone who has hunted and loaded extensively with the 375 H&H you can't go wrong and I doubt if you would ever regret purchasing one.
You will also find that your 375 H&H will never fall from vogue and will appreciate over the years, so you will never lose a nickel on it. With the overall popularity of the 375 H&H you will always be able to find brass and bullets, for the rest of your life and your grandson's life. It is the 30-06 of the medium bores and there are so many out there in use that it will never die or even become endangered.
Zastava makes one that is relatively inexpensive and there is almost always 1F brass of one make or another on the EE. If you decide to go with a 375 H&H I can probably help you out with some brass......I have about 600 I think.....I could likely spare 50 to get you started.
I currently own three 375 H&Hs, a 375 Ruger, a 375 Wby and a 378 Wby.........so as you can see I am "familiar with that of which I speak". You will never regret purchasing a 375 H&H, it can be a pussy cat to shoot if you load it as such and it comes real close to a hell fire, fire breathing dragon if you choose to load it as such.
It has another attribute which a lot of people don't know......it tends to shoot a wide range of bullet weights to the same POI. This was a design criteria of Holland & Holland when they designed the cartridge as a "one gun does all" African rifle.
Take it from someone who has hunted and loaded extensively with the 375 H&H you can't go wrong and I doubt if you would ever regret purchasing one.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Just set yourself up with a .375 H&H and have it all. 200 & 235grs screamers to 380grs at 2250fps. It can pretend to be a .300 or a .416, no need to put yourself in a ballistic corner to satisfy niches, it’s a broad spectrum chambering.
EDIT: I see Dogleg and c-fbmi have beat me to the punch.
EDIT: I see Dogleg and c-fbmi have beat me to the punch.
I mainly hunt with 6.5x55 swedes but picked up a 9.3x57 for moose hunting ,the brass can be reformed from 8x57 quite easily. My preference would be a 9.3x62 though but they don't show up that often and they are pricier,not sure why.
This - the PRIVI factory 286gr will do you well and not expensive, and the recoil is generally less than a 45-70 carbine. Easy to reload and 2450 in 286gr for mine and under moa.
I got amazing accuracy in my 458 using 3031 and Speer 400 gr bullets , great combo . To the OP , if you're looking for a all round mid bore , the 375 H&H is hard to beat , but a bit on the heavy side . I've had and still have most of the calibers mentioned here . My current favorite is a 358 Win that Rembo and I put together . It's light , handy and accurate and , with 225 gr Partitions , will take anything we have around here . If you're looking for something that you can get factory ammo for , the 9.3x62 or the 35 Whelen are two good choices . I like my 45/70 very much , but for a general purpose rifle , I like something with a bit more reach . They'll all do the job , half the fun is deciding which one you want .
Personal thing, if I was going for medium bore it would be 35 Whalen or 9.3/74R . A 375 is the logical step but I m not all that logical. I like big and I slow so I use strait case single shots, ie: 30-40 Krag,32-40,38-55,45-70,45-100,50-70,50-90,577-450,&577. They are just fun to shoot. Cost for hunting is not that high as you will likely only shoot 100 rd a year. If it is going to be a range gun then expect lots more. Easy to find components for 375 H&H. Will do anything you ever want.
redbirddog
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Maple Syrup land Ontario
I would say a 45/70 but you did mention price.
You can snag a 444 or a 450 Marlin once in a while for a deal just because it's a bit of an odd ball and people want to move them. But you will not regret the 45/70 and two years later you will look back and thank you self. The path you are on I followed 4 years ago. And I'm glad I picked up a 45/70. There are so many options open to you. Take the cost of the gun out of the equation, it will blind you on the right path for you. $200 more for the right gun is nothing in the big picture.
You can snag a 444 or a 450 Marlin once in a while for a deal just because it's a bit of an odd ball and people want to move them. But you will not regret the 45/70 and two years later you will look back and thank you self. The path you are on I followed 4 years ago. And I'm glad I picked up a 45/70. There are so many options open to you. Take the cost of the gun out of the equation, it will blind you on the right path for you. $200 more for the right gun is nothing in the big picture.
dgradinaru
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- British Columbia
I would go with one of the 9.3's. You can get good quality rifles for a good price from tradex. Not to long ago I got into a 98 action sporter in 9.3x57, got the dieset that expands 8x57 brass which is readily available at tradex. Package came to around 550 Shipped. Another great choice would be a zastava in 9.3x62 750 shipped to your door. Factory ammo runs around 30$ a box from PRIVI.
Tabacco Brook
Regular
- Location
- Nova Scotia
From what I have read in your post,...
...."useful trajectory out to 200yds is ideal"...
...."guesstimating range between 100 and 200yds"...
...."over 200gr bullet weight"...
...."2000-2500 fps range"...
...."preferably 358cal or bigger"...
...." I plan to reload for whatever I get"...
...."I would prefer it to be a light weight rifle without viscous recoil"...
you have perfectly described the 358 Winchester.... dies are cheap,.. brass can be made from 308win,.. Sierra, Hornady, Speer all make good bullets that are cheap,.. plus there are other makers of .358" out there but cost a bit more, .... the only thing that does not fit your description is the cost of the rifle chambered in 358win,.. unless you by one second hand,.. but second hand shouldn't be a big problem if you like the Browning BLR,.. I think there are 3 floating around on the EE right now,.. I have a PG model BLR and I really like it, it's very accurate, works flawless, and recoil isn't much more than a 308win. The Ruger 77 chambered in 358win, (I would love to have one), would be nice, but quite hard to find.
35 Whelen would my next choice,.. but it would probably be a bit heavier, and have a bit more recoil,.. but it would provide a bit more smack on a moose or elk.
...."useful trajectory out to 200yds is ideal"...
...."guesstimating range between 100 and 200yds"...
...."over 200gr bullet weight"...
...."2000-2500 fps range"...
...."preferably 358cal or bigger"...
...." I plan to reload for whatever I get"...
...."I would prefer it to be a light weight rifle without viscous recoil"...
you have perfectly described the 358 Winchester.... dies are cheap,.. brass can be made from 308win,.. Sierra, Hornady, Speer all make good bullets that are cheap,.. plus there are other makers of .358" out there but cost a bit more, .... the only thing that does not fit your description is the cost of the rifle chambered in 358win,.. unless you by one second hand,.. but second hand shouldn't be a big problem if you like the Browning BLR,.. I think there are 3 floating around on the EE right now,.. I have a PG model BLR and I really like it, it's very accurate, works flawless, and recoil isn't much more than a 308win. The Ruger 77 chambered in 358win, (I would love to have one), would be nice, but quite hard to find.
35 Whelen would my next choice,.. but it would probably be a bit heavier, and have a bit more recoil,.. but it would provide a bit more smack on a moose or elk.
I like the cut of your jib..... I was going to say the exact same thing, except I didn’t because of the cost of the rifle involved (had an M77 in 35 Whelen and currently have an M77 RS carbine in .358 win.... neither were cheap)
I could agree with the 375 h&h crowd.. but recoil is a tad stout if recoil is a concern with full loads, and I personally don’t believe in loading a cartridge down unless you don’t have a rifle that can do what the downloaded one will do..... (but that’s just me)...
- Location
- In the shadows of the Rockies
The need to go beyond just using Deer calibers to put the real smack-down on heavy game. 
My observations using these -
9.3mm/35 caliber: 9.3x62 ammo is actually quite reasonable at $29.95 per box from TradeEx ( https://www.tradeexcanada.com/content/prvi-partizan-93x62-ammunition-285gr-sp-- ). Heavy bullets are available, 35 caliber 310gr and 9.3mm 320 gr. I like my 9.3x74R Ruger No.1 because it can be handloaded well beyond factory ammo ballistics. Wide selection of 35 caliber bullets, unlike for the 9.3, including 158gr pistol bullets for plinking. My custom 350 RM can fire 310gr bullets at 2500 fps. OK performance, adequate power to break shoulders on heavy game except at longer ranges.
375 caliber: don't see an appreciable or any performance improvement over properly handloaded 9.3/35 in comparable bullet weights. Has only 4% more cross-sectional area than 9.3mm.
45 caliber: real heavy weight bullets like 500gr+ available for 45-70 or 458 Win. Mag./458 Lott. Bullet drop can be significant beyond 200 yards - if that's an issue - but these have the cross-sectional area to transmit a lot of shock even at lower impact speeds (~1800 fps) and heavy bullet weight for bone-busting deep penetration. The Ruger No.1 45-70 can be handloaded close to 458 WM ballistics.
Not on your list but consider 416 caliber. Bullet weights from 300 to 400gr. These shoot reasonably flat at high muzzle speeds, have sufficient cross-sectional area to transmit good shock and sufficient bullet weight for excellent penetration out to extended ranges.
My observations using these -
9.3mm/35 caliber: 9.3x62 ammo is actually quite reasonable at $29.95 per box from TradeEx ( https://www.tradeexcanada.com/content/prvi-partizan-93x62-ammunition-285gr-sp-- ). Heavy bullets are available, 35 caliber 310gr and 9.3mm 320 gr. I like my 9.3x74R Ruger No.1 because it can be handloaded well beyond factory ammo ballistics. Wide selection of 35 caliber bullets, unlike for the 9.3, including 158gr pistol bullets for plinking. My custom 350 RM can fire 310gr bullets at 2500 fps. OK performance, adequate power to break shoulders on heavy game except at longer ranges.
375 caliber: don't see an appreciable or any performance improvement over properly handloaded 9.3/35 in comparable bullet weights. Has only 4% more cross-sectional area than 9.3mm.
45 caliber: real heavy weight bullets like 500gr+ available for 45-70 or 458 Win. Mag./458 Lott. Bullet drop can be significant beyond 200 yards - if that's an issue - but these have the cross-sectional area to transmit a lot of shock even at lower impact speeds (~1800 fps) and heavy bullet weight for bone-busting deep penetration. The Ruger No.1 45-70 can be handloaded close to 458 WM ballistics.
Not on your list but consider 416 caliber. Bullet weights from 300 to 400gr. These shoot reasonably flat at high muzzle speeds, have sufficient cross-sectional area to transmit good shock and sufficient bullet weight for excellent penetration out to extended ranges.
The need to go beyond just using Deer calibers to put the real smack-down on heavy game.
My observations using these -
9.3mm/35 caliber: 9.3x62 ammo is actually quite reasonable at $29.95 per box from TradeEx ( https://www.tradeexcanada.com/content/prvi-partizan-93x62-ammunition-285gr-sp-- ). Heavy bullets are available, 35 caliber 310gr and 9.3mm 320 gr. I like my 9.3x74R Ruger No.1 because it can be handloaded well beyond factory ammo ballistics. Wide selection of 35 caliber bullets, unlike for the 9.3, including 158gr pistol bullets for plinking. My custom 350 RM can fire 310gr bullets at 2500 fps. OK performance, adequate power to break shoulders on heavy game except at longer ranges.
375 caliber: don't see an appreciable or any performance improvement over properly handloaded 9.3/35 in comparable bullet weights. Has only 4% more cross-sectional area than 9.3mm.
45 caliber: real heavy weight bullets like 500gr+ available for 45-70 or 458 Win. Mag./458 Lott. Bullet drop can be significant beyond 200 yards - if that's an issue - but these have the cross-sectional area to transmit a lot of shock even at lower impact speeds (~1800 fps) and heavy bullet weight for bone-busting deep penetration. The Ruger No.1 45-70 can be handloaded close to 458 WM ballistics.
Not on your list but consider 416 caliber. Bullet weights from 300 to 400gr. These shoot reasonably flat at high muzzle speeds, have sufficient cross-sectional area to transmit good shock and sufficient bullet weight for excellent penetration out to extended ranges.
He is somewhat recoil adverse and wants a cheaper rifle for moose and elk at less than long range and your suggestions include 416’s, 300-400gr bullets and ruger #1’s?.. did you even read his post?
Sunray, is that you?
