I want one super bad now more then ever but I'm scared I wonder if I should buy one now off someone .... That would suck to buy one and a month later have to give it up. That would be a sad day for me anyways I think I'd tear up
Swiss Arms rifles being examined for reclassification?
- Thread starter prairieguy
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Stormchaser
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Me too!
To some extend, this all mess is proving the actual legislation is not working at all. If C/A have hit the shelves, while being thought being legitimate SA, looking at the big picture, something has failed in the process. It is obvious that RCMP, CBSA, importer, or retailers have neither the technical manpower, neither the time to check every single rifle. There is a plausible denialability on the Canadian side, ie. if the manufacturer screws up, otherwise prohibited rifle might ends up being sold...
That said, this is getting more exciting every day :-/
That said, this is getting more exciting every day :-/
F22_RaptoR
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Edmonton, Alberta
I think the best we can hope for right now, is that the RCMP decides the regular Classic Green, Black special etc... stays, and they create a new FRT for the 'converted auto' versions that may or may not exist.
From what I have seen in the pictures the standard Swiss Arms Sporter rifles have the sear block in place designed from the factory (similarly to how the USC-45 cannot take the UMP45 lowers due to the Sear/safety sear cannot allow the lower to fit in) on the UPPER RECEIVER (the serialized gun part) and is therefor designed from the ground up as a "new" gun.
Honestly looking through the answers from TSE and CSC this is quite confusing, one guy says one thing, one guy says another. Who is right?
If a refurbished military surplus rifle actually managed to get in, I would think it would be considered a totally different FRT number compared to the Swiss Arms rifles we enjoy. In this case it would MAKE SENSE (of course the RCMP usually don't go on sense and logic here....) for the few refurbs to be turned in (as someone tried to get them in under false pretenses), not the entire line of Swiss Arms rifles.
Hopefully the Swiss Arms rep stating "functionally identical" is just a translation issue and is merely stating the refurbed rifles end up doing the same thing even by a different path (whereas our Canadian version was made from the ground up, the refurbs were modified to do the same thing, even though that's not acceptable by our governments standards).
From what I have seen in the pictures the standard Swiss Arms Sporter rifles have the sear block in place designed from the factory (similarly to how the USC-45 cannot take the UMP45 lowers due to the Sear/safety sear cannot allow the lower to fit in) on the UPPER RECEIVER (the serialized gun part) and is therefor designed from the ground up as a "new" gun.
Honestly looking through the answers from TSE and CSC this is quite confusing, one guy says one thing, one guy says another. Who is right?
If a refurbished military surplus rifle actually managed to get in, I would think it would be considered a totally different FRT number compared to the Swiss Arms rifles we enjoy. In this case it would MAKE SENSE (of course the RCMP usually don't go on sense and logic here....) for the few refurbs to be turned in (as someone tried to get them in under false pretenses), not the entire line of Swiss Arms rifles.
Hopefully the Swiss Arms rep stating "functionally identical" is just a translation issue and is merely stating the refurbed rifles end up doing the same thing even by a different path (whereas our Canadian version was made from the ground up, the refurbs were modified to do the same thing, even though that's not acceptable by our governments standards).
I might just gamble on it ..... Like someone said before I wonder if this will promote a brief sales surge when everything is sorted out and it's deemed legal fingers crossed. I love that black special I've been on a Post where someone had a blue special what's that all about ..... I like blue it's a nice color how many colours they come in? What about a converted qcb Swiss ?
Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
Very glad someone posted that...Thank you
Stormchaser
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
My pleasure, a very interesting thread. Insights from cool international business, to how guns are classified.
Let's not be divided up to be conquered, we are all gun supports. No matter what happens at the end of the month, this community, including all the site sponsors, will have to continue to rely on one another and support one another whether it be by writting a letter, making a donation, or educating our communities about the sport we all enjoy!
Anyone else seeing the MASSIVE precedent this could potentially set?
The RCMP publication here from 3 years ago lists a LOT of guns the RCMP has under review:
static.globalnews.ca/content/interactives/documents/general_news_bucket/A-2012-00068.PDF
Do you really think that if they think an SR22 is a variant of an AR-15 that they will have any qualms about making up some BS story that the VZ58 is an AK47 variant or get creative with any number of other guns out on the market? The VZ58 has MUCH more in common with the AK47 than the SR22 does with the AR-15.
The Conservatives are going to do jack about this situation, no matter how many pink, flowery scented, hand written letters you send to them.
When it comes to guns, buy NR's on the EE, shovel, and shut up. You're only a criminal if you're caught. Don't get caught and you're not a criminal.
The SMART thing to do if anything is to set up networks of friends to buy Non-res guns from dealers, sell them off to your friends and keep NO RECORD of the transaction to disrupt the paper trail for the RCMP WHEN (not if) they start banning everything.
Personally, I think I'm going to sell off EVERY non-res gun I bought from a dealer in the past 2 years - just to do my part. In fact, WHEN I get my T97's in September, I'm going to put an add on the EE asking a trade from someone for theirs for this very reason.
If the Swiss Arms are reclassified, I suspect every business will surrender (some voluntarily, some by a warrant) their records to the police, who in turn will send a polite letter demanding people who bought them surrender their guns - if they still have them.
It's called obstruction of justice if you lie to the police about selling the rifle you bought from a business a year ago and they kick down your door and find it. If you have a different rifle of same make and model that you bought on the EE through a private sale, at the very least, you can avoid THAT charge.
I'm no lawyer, but I'd bet by NOT having the original rifle you purchased WHEN they come for you, you could get your lawyer to argue that the police had no reasonable reason to suspect you having a prohibited firearm if the ONLY evidence to suggest so was a ledger they got from a business.
If they don't find the rifle with the serial number sold to you. You will still lose your rifle (if they find it), but I suspect you might be able to get your lawyer to petition the court to not allow that rifle to be admissible as evidence and get the possession of a prohibited weapon charges dropped, as there was no reasonable grounds to believe, based solely upon a store's ledger, that you were in possession of one and the warrant was issued in error (that is, violating your section 8 Charter right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure).
God help you if, in that situation, they find you with a gun you bought from a business, recorded in their ledger...
(Not a lawyer - that's not legal advice).
The RCMP publication here from 3 years ago lists a LOT of guns the RCMP has under review:
static.globalnews.ca/content/interactives/documents/general_news_bucket/A-2012-00068.PDF
Do you really think that if they think an SR22 is a variant of an AR-15 that they will have any qualms about making up some BS story that the VZ58 is an AK47 variant or get creative with any number of other guns out on the market? The VZ58 has MUCH more in common with the AK47 than the SR22 does with the AR-15.
The Conservatives are going to do jack about this situation, no matter how many pink, flowery scented, hand written letters you send to them.
When it comes to guns, buy NR's on the EE, shovel, and shut up. You're only a criminal if you're caught. Don't get caught and you're not a criminal.
The SMART thing to do if anything is to set up networks of friends to buy Non-res guns from dealers, sell them off to your friends and keep NO RECORD of the transaction to disrupt the paper trail for the RCMP WHEN (not if) they start banning everything.
Personally, I think I'm going to sell off EVERY non-res gun I bought from a dealer in the past 2 years - just to do my part. In fact, WHEN I get my T97's in September, I'm going to put an add on the EE asking a trade from someone for theirs for this very reason.
If the Swiss Arms are reclassified, I suspect every business will surrender (some voluntarily, some by a warrant) their records to the police, who in turn will send a polite letter demanding people who bought them surrender their guns - if they still have them.
It's called obstruction of justice if you lie to the police about selling the rifle you bought from a business a year ago and they kick down your door and find it. If you have a different rifle of same make and model that you bought on the EE through a private sale, at the very least, you can avoid THAT charge.
I'm no lawyer, but I'd bet by NOT having the original rifle you purchased WHEN they come for you, you could get your lawyer to argue that the police had no reasonable reason to suspect you having a prohibited firearm if the ONLY evidence to suggest so was a ledger they got from a business.
If they don't find the rifle with the serial number sold to you. You will still lose your rifle (if they find it), but I suspect you might be able to get your lawyer to petition the court to not allow that rifle to be admissible as evidence and get the possession of a prohibited weapon charges dropped, as there was no reasonable grounds to believe, based solely upon a store's ledger, that you were in possession of one and the warrant was issued in error (that is, violating your section 8 Charter right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure).
God help you if, in that situation, they find you with a gun you bought from a business, recorded in their ledger...
(Not a lawyer - that's not legal advice).
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Very nice! I enjoyed watching that!
A Paperwork Criminal if memory from the video serves correctly! Which is WRONG! And I do worry about precedents that could be set by this!
Even the average Joe should be concerned, imagine the waste of money if the RCMP offers a buy back, its not their money they are spending, its yours and mine
On a serious note this article definitely needs to be shared. Because it's absolute bs, and people need to see how seriously flawed the system is.
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While I am quite sure you could bury one of these in your back yard and keep it a secret until your dying day, thanks to the elimination of the registry --
That is cold comfort. I buy my guns to shoot them. I want to be able to take them to the range and shoot them, and for the NR's (like the Swiss!!) I want to be able to take them to the woods. I don't own SA yet, but it was on my list of things to buy, pretty cool rifle.
We need to fight this somehow. We need to be able to own our guns legally, without having to hide them, without having to look over our shoulders. I really don't want to break the law, I'm the kind of guy who goes back to check and make sure my safe is properly locked up when I leave the house. I want to own my guns legally and enjoy them openly.
This really sucks!!!
That is cold comfort. I buy my guns to shoot them. I want to be able to take them to the range and shoot them, and for the NR's (like the Swiss!!) I want to be able to take them to the woods. I don't own SA yet, but it was on my list of things to buy, pretty cool rifle.
We need to fight this somehow. We need to be able to own our guns legally, without having to hide them, without having to look over our shoulders. I really don't want to break the law, I'm the kind of guy who goes back to check and make sure my safe is properly locked up when I leave the house. I want to own my guns legally and enjoy them openly.
This really sucks!!!
Anywho I hope this helps push a reform so that the rc cant just toss the banhammer on whatever the hell they want as they want it. There should be something to get in the way. I mean it's a total btich to reclassify any firearm the good way, (restricted to non res) why shouldnt it be the other way?
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Wow, with all the external foes we have, we do a dam good job of taking each other apart. I don't own a Swiss Arms Rifle at this time. Based on the arguing across the hall between the two corporate entities here, unless they both help find a solution to this fiasco, I can see a lot of people taking their gun business elsewhere. If the Swiss Arms rifles are re-classified, we all lose, as they will come after another black rifle next. Some good comments in here, but we all lose if we keep bickering and taking cheap shots at each other. Pandoras box has been opened. How we fix it is another matter.
I think the people need to take action against this, tell the government no. It's really easy for everyone who doesn't own a SA to sit back and watch this happen to the people that do, but we ALL should be sticking together and refusing to give in to a whim of the RCMP. If we watch this happen to the SA that has been out for 12 years in Canada, and has happened to a few other rifles recently as well, it WILL happen again. They will probably continue to do this until they have control of the "black" rifles by force.
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